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Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by brookst on Monday October 20, 2025 @01:59PM (#45647021)
Those students would have just gone to other countries, written their PhD dissertations there, advanced another country’s tech sector, and the US would have found the pain of isolationism that much sooner.

It is not possible to keep core IP secret. HN folks, of all people, should know this. Anything that thousands of people know is de facto public knowledge.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Monday October 20, 2025 @02:06PM (#45647101)
Keeping core IP secret is not the issue. The issue is allowing the Chinese to steal IP and then compete in our markets with that stolen IP.

>students would have just gone to other countries, written their PhD dissertations there, advanced another country’s tech sector,

which other countries specifically? No other country has a tech sector. It's the US hegemony or the China hegemony.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by FpUser on Monday October 20, 2025 @03:02PM (#45647814)
>"...The issue is allowing the Chinese to steal IP..."

I do not think they need permission. There is no force that could order country to recognize IP. Do you really expect all world forever pay rent to few giant corps?

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Monday October 20, 2025 @03:20PM (#45648024)
Bad reading comprehension.

You're talking about recognizing IP, I am talking about stealing IP AND selling stolen IP in our markets.

1st: yes force can be used to discourage the theft of IP. This is merely an obstacle, not a total blocker 2nd: yes force can be used to block IP from our markets. This is actually incredibly trivial and would have been very easy 40-years ago.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by FpUser on Monday October 20, 2025 @04:00PM (#45648550)
>You're talking about recognizing IP, I am talking about stealing IP ..."

If country does not recognize IP then "stealing" is not a theft in their eyes.

As for using force to prevent "theft": what force? Military? You might get burned really bad.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by corimaith on Monday October 20, 2025 @04:44PM (#45649104)
A military controlling the flow of goods into its own borders isn't going to "burn bad", it's called customs controls.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by FpUser on Monday October 20, 2025 @06:09PM (#45650066)
>"The issue is allowing the Chinese to steal IP and then compete in our markets with that stolen IP"

That was the original message. My understanding of "our markets" was customers of the US which include the US itself, China and many other countries. Sure the US can prohibit importing of China's goods. It can not control what happens in the rest of the world to the degree that it once could.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Monday October 20, 2025 @06:52PM (#45650439)
I did specify the 70s 80s and 90s.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Monday October 20, 2025 @06:50PM (#45650426)
Sorry no. If you can't imagine how one country couldn't use force to stop another country from stealing IP then you are either not intellectually up to this conversation or not arguing in good faith.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by corimaith on Monday October 20, 2025 @04:40PM (#45649036)
How are you going to gain core IP research if you don't have experience or access to leading edge researchers to pass you knowledge in the first place?

Talent is proportional to population, but that only matters if society and state has the infrastructure to raise that talent up. Otherwise Nigeria or Indonesia would be scientific powerhouses, and Iran would have modern fighter jets.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by Cyph0n on Monday October 20, 2025 @05:49PM (#45649861)
> Otherwise Nigeria or Indonesia would be scientific powerhouses, and Iran would have modern fighter jets.

The reason why these statements are not true is because of colonization, delayed industrialization, and Western intervention post-independence. Getting out of this “quicksand” is exceedingly difficult.

China did well to industrialize quickly and keep intervention at bay - in fact, you could argue that it making the rest of the world reliant on its industrial capacity helped address the intervention problem.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by wagwang on Monday October 20, 2025 @06:10PM (#45650071)
This world view is just wrong from top to bottom. Between 1945-1970, China was in a much worser state that any of those 3rd world countries in many aspects. Are you saying post 1970, the reason why these countries did not develop as fast as china is because of colonialism and intervention? You can apply the same arguments to Japan in 45 and Korea in 50. But but but aid? Ok and we send billions to countries all around the world every year.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by Cyph0n on Monday October 20, 2025 @06:18PM (#45650139)
But I just pointed out that China is an exception? Also, China had access to human capital at a scale that no African country had.

Japan pre-45 was a world power, and had industrialized by the early 1900s. WW2 was a mere setback.

Korea is more of a “miracle” than Japan was, but they also did well to industrialize ASAP. They also didn’t face the brunt of European colonialism.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by shakow on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @04:18AM (#45653632)
> They also didn’t face the brunt of European colonialism.

But they faced the brunt of Chinese & Japanese colonialism, and a full-blown civil war after which their GDP per capita was in the same ballpark as Kenya's.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by Cyph0n on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:51PM (#45662732)
Yes, they did well given the odds.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by wagwang on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @12:06PM (#45657495)
Lots of miracles and exceptions in a working theory
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by Cyph0n on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:57PM (#45662245)
Lots? There are 100 or so countries between Asia and Africa. And we are talking about a handful of East Asian countries.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by wagwang on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @10:13PM (#45664197)
I wonder if there are some other factors here considering the geographical clustering.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by markdown on Monday October 20, 2025 @07:07PM (#45650564)
Aid is the single largest barrier to development and progress over the long term.
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by dontlaugh on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @04:23AM (#45653652)
“Those who come with wheat, millet, corn or milk, they are not helping us. Those who really want to help us can give us ploughs, tractors, fertilizers, insecticides, watering cans, drills and dams. That is how we would define food aid.” ― Thomas Sankara
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by heavyset_go on Monday October 20, 2025 @06:27PM (#45650224)
China wasn't beholden to neoliberalism and the World Bank and IMF.

China made the right choice to dump a ton of resources into different industries without the expectation of immediate RoI or any RoI at all. Anyone or anything that got in the way of their goals were dealt with.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by dontlaugh on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @04:22AM (#45653648)
Yes.

Imperialism (as a system of extracting wealth from poor countries) continues to exist, but China has a working countermeasure. You can see similar with Vietnam.

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by wagwang on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @12:05PM (#45657489)
Sure if you water down the term of imperialism then yes. It is then incumbent on you to prove "imperialism" among the worst performers economically. What imperialism plagues liberia and ethiopia and honduras and papua new guinea
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by heavyset_go on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:53PM (#45662212)
Papau New Guinea was ravaged by imperialism, invaded by imperial Japan and then was a meat grinder warfront in WWII. It was controlled by Australia since then.

Similarly in WWI, it was invaded by Australia and only gained independence in 1975.

Before that, it was split between Germany, the British and Dutch.

Before that, its population was impressed and blackbirded by European traders.

Like cargo cults literally developed there lol

Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by wagwang on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @10:13PM (#45664196)
So what, china in 1975 was a completely destroyed country, comparable to north korea
Re:Alibaba Cloud claims to reduce Nvidia GPU use by 82% by heavyset_go on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @11:24PM (#45664620)
You asked what imperialism affected Papau New Guinea and I answered you. I'm not making an argument or addressing anything other than that from your post.