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Re:Tent v0.1 by mej10 on Friday September 21, 2012 @03:35PM (#4555343)
You say decentralized services never work, and then give an example of the most successful one: email.

I don't know why you are assuming that everyone will have to run their own.

Also, it seems very cynical/naive to think that just because such systems aren't currently working/won't currently work with given social structures, that this will always be the case. Do you disagree?

Re:Tent v0.1 by repsilat on Friday September 21, 2012 @06:00PM (#4556103)
Not only is email a successful decentralised system, it's the logical infrastructure for a decentralised social network. In Facebook terms, your "feed" is just an inbox with a smart filter and nice presentation, and your "wall" is just a mailing list to which all of your friends are subscribed.
Re:Tent v0.1 by macrael on Friday September 21, 2012 @06:57PM (#4556338)
This is so profoundly true. It's all just feeds. RSS could have been implemented as mailing lists, too. Maybe we should use mailing lists to build the next big decentralized social network instead of this infrastructure.
Re:Tent v0.1 by adamnemecek on Friday September 21, 2012 @07:17PM (#4556416)
I'll just leave this here http://mobisocial.stanford.edu/papers/hotpets11.pdf First sentence of the abstract: "This paper proposes Mr. Privacy, a social application framework built on top of email..."
Re:Tent v0.1 by Zash on Friday September 21, 2012 @07:10PM (#4556394)
Wait, wasn't RSS invented to replace mailing lists (aka news letters)?

But yeah, making a facebook/twitter-style social network app that uses plain email as transport would be really cool.

Re:Tent v0.1 by repsilat on Friday September 21, 2012 @08:52PM (#4556690)
> Wait, wasn't RSS invented to replace mailing lists (aka news letters)?

Probably. On the server-side RSS is nicer in some respects - you're not sending out mail to old, disused inboxes, you don't have to manage subscriptions or worry about being blocked as spam etc.

One thing that I think might make email better is if people got used to the idea of "email apps". The idea that my inbox might collate stories from a given source into a scannable digest (like RSS might give me) seems like a strange departure from the traditional idea of what an email client or service is "meant to do" - present discrete, unmodified messages in the most transparent way possible.

For a social network it's clear that you'd need something like that, though - you'd need clever filters on your feed, thumbnails on images, possible integration with image-sharing services etc etc. Using email and mailing lists gives you a big head-start, but if you can't build on top of it then it can't take off like a dedicated protocol can.

Re:Tent v0.1 by Zash on Friday September 21, 2012 @09:18PM (#4556758)
XMPP has this neat feature that allows you to know what features are supported by a remote client, allowing you to just send social stuff to online clients that want it. Email doesn't have this, but it could be approximated by some clever use of multipart messages. It'd be even better with filters, but you can't count on things like sieve being available.
Re:Tent v0.1 by wdewind on Friday September 21, 2012 @06:00PM (#4556101)
Email essentially IS centralized at DNS. Any decentralized social network has to solve the lookup problem: how do I find people. None really do this in a way that's going to make it fundamentally different than what we have now.

I can't help feeling that the natural outcome of decentralized social networking is that people eventually start hosting them for mom and dad, then a few friends, then start companies, then we are back to facebook. Someone, somewhere is going to have to have a database of names mapped to servers.

Centralization is, in an abstract way, present in so many of our social structures, that yes, I disagree that within a capitalist economic structure (one which is optimized for sharing of services rather than individualism, ie: non-technical users simply wont do this unless the work is done for them, like facebook did) it would be next to impossible for something like this to work.

People quite simply don't want to deal with this shit, and centralization brings efficiency and management amongst many other things.

Re:Tent v0.1 by jackalope on Friday September 21, 2012 @06:18PM (#4556182)
Email is a decentralized service and the task of discovery is solved with DNS. If you have an address, [email protected], you can find out where to send the message if it is explicitly set (MX record) or not (A record). I don't see why you can't do the same with a decentralized social network.
Re:Tent v0.1 by wdewind on Saturday September 22, 2012 @10:55AM (#4557958)
And who runs the DNS servers?
Re:Tent v0.1 by marshray on Saturday September 22, 2012 @06:22PM (#4559196)
The most popular ones are run by IANA, ICANN, and Verisign.

But nothing stops most of us in the free world from choosing an alternative root system. Other than the support cost of a minor config change in our OS or application software.

Re:Tent v0.1 by Sami_Lehtinen on Sunday September 23, 2012 @02:55AM (#4560248)
Or mymail@[127.0.0.1]
Re:Tent v0.1 by wmf on Friday September 21, 2012 @06:27PM (#4556222)
Email essentially IS centralized at DNS.

The difference between DNS and Facebook/Twitter is that DNS is regulated so that bad guys have to go through some kind of due process to shut down your domain. It's not perfect, but it's better than what else we've got.

Re:Tent v0.1 by unixnoob on Saturday September 22, 2012 @12:01AM (#4557086)
AKAIK it is still possible with most popular email servers to send and recive using only IP addresses (e.g. by placing the address in brackets).

DNS is really only optional for email, at least functionally. But I think a lot of people assume there can be no email without domain names.

Re:Tent v0.1 by wdewind on Saturday September 22, 2012 @10:56AM (#4557960)
So why not regulate facebook and twitter instead of make another service that will essentially turn into DNS, which we already have?
Re:Tent v0.1 by wmf on Saturday September 22, 2012 @12:48PM (#4558285)
Facebook and Twitter were funded under the assumption that they would be unregulated monopolies, so regulating them amounts to stealing from their investors.

Instead of another service that will essentially turn into DNS, I would propose just using DNS for naming. So if you're Tyler Durden you register tyler.durden.name and put an A record pointing to your DiSo server. Now you can switch providers while retaining your identity by just changing the A record.

Re:Tent v0.1 by grovecai on Friday September 21, 2012 @11:07PM (#4556979)
Exactly, no matter how decentralized is the infrastructure, there always has a centralized node, such as BitTorrent tracker.
Re:Tent v0.1 by nine_k on Saturday September 22, 2012 @01:03AM (#4557175)
BitTorrent is capable of being decentralized from day one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_tracker#Trackerless_...
Re:Tent v0.1 by Zash on Tuesday September 25, 2012 @06:12AM (#4569560)

    The original BitTorrent client was the first to offer decentralized [...]
Is not the same as "from day one"
Re:Tent v0.1 by grovecai on Saturday September 22, 2012 @05:46AM (#4557512)
Why it wasn't be?
Re:Tent v0.1 by haroldp on Friday September 21, 2012 @07:38PM (#4556476)
Exactly right. Very few people want the hassle of running their own email server. It happens I am the kind of person that likes running his own email server. I run my mail server in such a way that it is appealing to many of my friends to host their email accounts with me. Many other people find their accounts with gmail, or their ISP or their business. These are ALL examples of the success of our decentralized email system. Individuals, small businesses, and large business can all enter the market, offer advantageous features, compete on price, etc.

Facebook is the opposite of this. I have no option to build my own site for facebook style networking. I have no option to subscribe to Google's implementation of a general social networking protocol.