Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM! [Scottish army cheers]

You know they disembowelled him at the end of that movie.

Fight and you may die.

Scotland is also still a part of the United Kingdom. =)

Not if Sean Connery can help it!

Anyways, interesting point, is it worth fighting for something if the odds are great that you'll fail and get disemboweled? I think some things are.

To end human cancer: yes.

To bring Photoshop to the browser: no.

Freedom: yes.

I choose Freedom.

Being able to work the hours I want to work. I can come into work at 10 instead of 8. I can leave work at 3 if I wanted to. As long as my work gets done.

Not having a boss micromanage me. Not having to worry about office politics (for the most part). Also the freedom to run with great ideas and not have the bureaucracy of some corp jobs.

Also Being able to work on a wide range of technologies and work with people from many different verticals and experience levels is a great experience and keeps my job (programming) fresh.

Finally startups generally only last a couple years. This allows me to change jobs every few years and lets me do something else. This is really beneficial as I'm able to feel refreshed and not trapped in a grind.

A bit scary, since startups are statistically an inferior way of accumulating wealth and they offer "freedom" only at the expense of consuming your life.

This poll forgot "masochism", which is my +1.

Yes, hence the other post I link to at the top of the page. People are not thinking carefully about what they want. Obviously, they want freedom most of all, but there are 0 discussions here at HN about the best ways to achieve freedom. You'd think, as a bunch of hackers, we'd be able to come up with something pretty good.

Are we reading the same site? I have seen lots discussing financial freedom, freedom from wage slavery, freedom to make your own business direction choices, etc.

I see plenty of people saying they are wage slaves and would like financial freedom. I see no one talking about methods of becoming financially free other than startups.

So, let me rephrase that. I see 0 posts about how to become financially free (excluding startups). That is either because it has been conclusively shown startups are the only viable option, or because people haven't thought about their motivations carefully. I suspect it is the latter.

True. There is definitely a startup focus. But that doesn't stop other stuff from appearing - here's three I saved:

Stocks and day trading: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=390765

Avoiding working hard: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=394609

Making money off side projects: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=423204

Those are good. But, I still think there is more to be covered, and I'll try to put in my .02 in the coming months.

Launching a successful startup is hard. Becoming financially free is even harder. But can't anything and everything be hard? Isn't hard/easy subjective? If everything is hard then nothing is hard. It just is.

I think clocking in from 9-5 and being told what to do is hard. Never mind how many green pieces of paper I get for it. But we all need money as a survival tool. So where do we draw the line? How do we balance security, survivial, freedom, joy, work, and responsibility...

Each answer is our own. I want to build a successful business because I put it in my brain a long time ago that I could. There is nothing stopping me from doing it. I want to prove myself, to myself and reap the benefits while I do it.

From my perspective, it is better than any and all alternatives I have regarding financial and life freedom/security etc...

The issue I want to get at with this poll and my other post is that of financial freedom. Is it truly hard, or only hard because of preset ideas of what it means/takes to be financially free?

It is interesting to see "freedom" widening its lead. There are a lot of business owners out there that will tell you "hah, freedom, that's a laugh". I would argue most traditionally successful businesses are run by owners who put in much more effort and work than anybody they employ. There is no such thing as paid sick days or standard hours.

This is not to discourage anyone from running their own business. Rather it is to highlight the case that "running your own business" != "freedom" neither from a temporal or a monetary sense.

Just as in everything else, it is HOW YOU GO ABOUT building and running your business that matters. There were a couple good articles regarding "having clear lifestyle goals" relative to any startup and measuring the success of your startup relative to those lifestyle goals.

So to answer your question - I don't think it can be answered. There is no absolute path to said goal. Hard is subjective, therefore scientifically meaningless.

Can't you be financially free if your expenses approach zero? It is possible for me to get lost in some national wildlife reserve and spend my life living off the land. Is that being free? What if you rake in millions of dollars at your startup but you MUST put in 14 hour days to keep it running? Is that being free?

Maybe what I am saying is we can't plan our lives in terms of end goals. Rather we must plan our lives in terms of what kind of journey we think best at any given time. And then simply ACT the way we wish to be. Do I want to be free? Well, maybe I should ACT free!

Our life IS the journey... Or maybe I'm just losing my sanity...

Hmm, that does seem to be a strong vibe with the popular comments. Still, acting free, for me, means spending a lot of time thinking and programming on certain subjects that aren't really my job. Plus, I want to study a lot of stuff. So, acting free is only an offtime exercise for me.

Alternatively, I could go the zen route and say I want whatever it is that is currently happening to me...but it wouldn't be honest.

I said other. Here's my specification.

I make web sites to make things that don't already exist. I make web sites I wished already existed. My main user is always myself.

Startups fascinate me because so little has been done. Each movement innovates very slightly. One person will add one neat feature to a site and then everybody else steals that and creates a lot of repetitive iterations on that theme.

When I work on startups, I kind of reflect that belief. I've had a few ideas - none of them launched until this current one - and with each one I tried to start from nothing and create stuff specifically to meet the content type. I'd call it "working with art" but that sounds really snotty. What it means is that I try to make every page I design something special. I want people to click a link and fall in love with the next page that loads. Splash page, deletion page, everything. I like having a site where each page is specially crafted.

So that's that. I view money as a similar artistic goal of sorts. I think that creating profit should be as unique as a web site. I guess it's a part of my goal, too - I do want to be filthy rich - but more than that, it's part of the process. I'll know I've made something meaningful when it makes me rich.

Glamor? From designing web sites?

I like learning new things as I design. Absolutely. But I get experience for everything. I learned graphic design to make a book cover, and in making a book I learned some things that I used for designing a blog theme, and I learned from that to make the first draft of my site's design.

Freedom's found everywhere. Maybe I'm young or an asshole, but I've never been in a situation where I feel caged. I would go work at the movie theater with ten sheets of paper and write. When I'm in class I take notes on one page and draft layouts on another. And I've always felt free to refuse to do things. One day in my senior year, I walked out of class, quit my job, and rode my bike to the library, because I felt too restricted doing what I'd been doing for a while. I always feel that freedom that comes from my knowing I'm doing what I want to do.

Wow. Long post for a short question, but I guess summarized it's that I make startups because they're there to be made.

"A sense of TRUE ownership."

"Doing a startup isn't a sensible CAREER decision... It's a largely emotional lifestyle decision."

Both of these come from the comment below by webwright. After all the reasons and explanations I had read before, they really nailed it for me and have always stuck in my mind.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=302548

For that niggling little feeling that you just might be onto something. Where apprehension clashes with excitement and the rush of it buries the worry that is sinking to the pit of your stomach. And you know the odds, and you know the stake: you place a bet on yourself.

Don't bother doing a start-up.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1016179405&play=1 (At 13:00)

This about sums up what why. Congresswoman Maxine Waters (House Committee on Financial Services Chairwoman) declared on CNBC tonight small businesses (who employ over 55% of American workers, and generates more than 78% of new jobs in the US) can forget about any simplification of taxes, regulation or laws... its just the cost of doing business and overhead she said.

Work for someone... less aggravation then starting a business and employing people. I wish it weren't true.

Other: to be a part of creating something.

I would place that under experience, since it is the experience of creating something.

Not for money. As we found out with the dot-com bubble in 2000, if your goal is to make a quick buck, your startup will fail.

Glamor: no thanks, that's not the point.

Experience: sure, a little bit (see a previous discussion on HN about a recent college grad asking to choose between Ph.D, startup, or Microsoft job). But not really the main point of startups.

So I have to pick: other. I do startups because I believe in the company vision (in my current case, exporting the silicon valley startup model to the rest of the world, in the previous case, bringing hardware designers with better debug tools).

Money doesn't have to mean making a quick buck. My current project won't change the world, but it will provide a sizable income stream that my co-founders and I can live off of and use to fund larger future projects.

Money is freedom.

Only up to a point. Sure, if you have discovered the money fountain, take as much as you can. But, otherwise, only pursue money insofar as it helps you become free.

Enough money for the rest of your life is freedom. Enough money to live a lavish lifestyle is a stronger chain than most.

tangible object cannot equal intangible state of being

Money is a tool toward practicing Freedom

Note I said practicing. Freedom cannot be obtained. It is not a static state. It is not an object. It is not a goal, a path, or a reward.

Freedom is power. Power is happiness.

Happiness is a cute, fuffy bunny.

Freedom. And money, to ensure future freedom.

And as a corollary to "freedom", I get to work on way cooler things than I would likely be working on otherwise.

Other: To make a better place to work. Not just for myself, but for everyone that works for me. We're programmers - we know how to write software. I've done my time working for people who don't. I'd like to never have to do it again. Almost any kind of software can be an interesting challenge to write in a good environment.

Experiences.

I want the experience of creating and nurturing something that from nothing can pay my family's bills. I want the experience of working in a close team again. I want the experience of being able to ride market problems.

If things work out? I may want money/freedom/time, but all of that really boils down to experiences as well: the experience of owning a jet, learning to scuba dive, seeing my kids grow up from very close (instead of commuting to a job).

It's all about experiences folks. When you die, it doesn't matter how much you've saved or what you might have been able to do because of your freedom. What matters is your choices and the experiences they provide.

Adventure.

Although it isn't commonly ascribed to people now days, throughout history it's been quite common for a young man's life choices to be driven by their desire for adventure. Be it running away to sea, joining the army, becoming an explorer, etc.

I think the current startup scene, with it's fast pace, constant reinvention, and unknown future is certainly able to fulfill that desire.

When I think about a new idea, or am working on a visual, putting together some slides I get a weird feeling - a cocktail of anxiety, excitement and adrenaline.

9/10 it keeps me awake too.

Freedom.

Not that I'd ever stop working entirely...just that I'd be free to work & do whatever I want, when I want without any money constraints (within reason).

Other: to change the world, make it a better place.

This is off topic. I just voted on 3 options. Are those options not mutually excluive? Can polls have mutually exclusive options?

I voted two. And no polls can't have mutually exclusive options.

It works well for this poll.

People.

In the end even if your startup folds, the experience of working with brilliant people trumps everything else.

That's a good one. I'll add it. This post timestamps the addition of the people option.

Laziness

Invest a few years working your ass off to be able to afford to sit on your ass later on in life.

That goes under freedom.

To be my own boss and hopefully move away from my current position working on someone else's dream.

To do something I'm really interested in and make connections in that industry.

Hmm, I would put that under people, money, and experience.

Means experience learning somthing or having fun. For me it is the latter.

Other: fun. I love it.

EDIT

Added a freedom and cause (for alain94040) options

Fame? c'mon, Fame! :-)

Freedom, and the hunt.

It's something to do.

Free beer at work.

Sense of purpose

I would put this under cause.

challenge

To create wealth which is one of two noblest things you could do as a human being the other being to replenish the earth with your kind which i am not at all interested in.

I should have put wealth instead of money. My mistake.

Apologies for the double (now triple) post. Stupid slow browser.