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Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by lhnz on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:27PM (#4549320)
It seems like the quality level maintained by Steve Jobs is quickly deteriorating in favour of business moves designed to wrest more control off Google. They are operating in a very similar way to other companies now.

Google executives must be laughing very hard right now. If I was Google I'd avoid releasing a Google Maps application for at least a year and let the Android handset manufacturers ruthlessly exploit Android's superior maps.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by jad on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:07PM (#4549519)
> It seems like the quality level maintained by Steve Jobs is quickly deteriorating in favour of business moves designed to wrest more control off Google.

This stuff gets so tiresome. Apple has been buying maps companies for years. Steve Jobs personally ran acquisitions at Apple. He decided which mapping companies to buy and when he did he probably had a good idea of how they would fit into the platform. Development of the new Maps app was surely underway when Jobs was still alive. What do you think happened? Jobs died and the executive team was like, "Alright everyone, we've got 6 months until the iOS 6 beta is out. Let's cancel our contract with Google and get this shit maps app in there pronto!"

The reality is that Apple has been dependent upon their biggest competitor for a strategically important smartphone feature. The Wall Street Journal reported[1] months ago that Google initially balked at letting Apple have access to Street View, and didn't allow Apple access to turn-by-turn data. If the issue was only quality, Apple could have turned to Bing or Yahoo. They didn't because owning this technology is a strategic necessity in the smartphone market as it stands today. Having features dictated by competitors is not an option.

It's true that the quality of the maps app isn't great. I get looney search results (even when tapping on their search suggestions) and it's extremely frustrating. But there is something to be said for getting it shipped and starting the process of refinement and improvement. It only becomes a strategic problem if the quality doesn't improve noticeably with time.

[1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FwvSLvr...

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by qq66 on Thursday September 20, 2012 @02:35PM (#4549965)
It's not that tiresome. Jobs would have clearly done things differently. He would have either 1) paid retail prices for Google Maps API access until Apple could build a shippable product, or 2) Gone on stage and painted Google as a big evil bully who was stealing good Maps from iPhone users -- the media headlines would read "Google Reneges on Loyal Apple customers" or something like that. Notably, the second option is not available to Tim Cook.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by jad on Thursday September 20, 2012 @10:43PM (#4551947)
> Jobs would have clearly done things differently.

What's almost as tiresome as the now persistent refrain of "this wouldn't have happened if Steve was still alive" are claims to know what Steve would have actually done if he were still alive. Your second option is ridiculous on its face.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by qq66 on Friday September 21, 2012 @02:48PM (#4555127)
Look at what happened with the iPhone 4 antenna issue. He just went on stage and said, "This isn't that big of a problem, and if it really bothers you, put it in a case." That is clearly not an option for Steve Ballmer or Larry Page in the same situation.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by DrJokepu on Thursday September 20, 2012 @04:15PM (#4550455)
> Notably, the second option is not available to Tim Cook.

But they could just send in Forstall, he could easily do it and get away with it.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by drivebyacct2 on Thursday September 20, 2012 @05:20PM (#4550761)
In that case, I'm glad Tim Cook handled it the way he did. I'm an Android user who would be happy to see people checking out Android 4.0, 4.1 and finding out that it's much better than what they think they know of Android.

At the same time, I totally respect and get why Apple did this. I applaud competition with Google Maps (I'd love to see OSM become a success too).

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by lhnz on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:30PM (#4549624)
>> It only becomes a strategic problem if the quality doesn't improve noticeably with time.

The negative PR and reduction in the quality of the core experience might cause a reduction in sales or consumer opinion of Apple.

>> What do you think happened? Jobs died and the executive team was like, "Alright everyone, we've got 6 months until the iOS 6 beta is out. Let's cancel our contract with Google and get this shit maps app in there pronto!"

Your assertion that Apple had a choice between owning strategic maps technology or licensing from others is incorrect as they are not mutually exclusive.

I have to say I don't think it's a smart strategic move -- somebody has acted on a false dilemma and as a result reduced product quality. As you pointed out yourself, Apple could have gone to Microsoft or Yahoo to retain quality or they could have fought harder with Google to keep the contract for a while longer. It was not a bad strategic decision to buy maps companies and to put R&D into creating their own maps solution, however it is a bad decision to release Apple maps in this state.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by jad on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:59PM (#4549783)
> The negative PR and reduction in the quality of the core experience might cause a reduction in sales or consumer opinion of Apple.

Could be. Remember though that they also added at least one notable feature (turn-by-turn), so it's more like 1 step forward and 2 steps back rather than just 2 steps back.

Also remember that Apple took a pounding for the whole antennagate thing, to the point where Steve Jobs had to hold a news conference to get everyone to calm down. That was an issue that "regular people" knew about. (I was asked by people at a bar if the iPhone 4 I had at the time had reception issues, for example.) And yet, Apple sold a ton of iPhone 4s, and no long-term damage was done to the Apple or iPhone brand.

So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that this will cause long-term problems. However, it is important for Apple to improve their maps data quickly.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by berkut on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:16PM (#4549555)
> Development of the new Maps app was surely underway when Jobs was still alive. What do you think happened? Jobs died and the executive team was like, "Alright everyone, we've got 6 months until the iOS 6 beta is out. Let's cancel our contract with Google and get this shit maps app in there pronto!"

No, I'm sure SJ wanted to get way from Google. But I doubt he would have let Apple release iOS6 maps in the state they're in if he were still in control.

Maybe they should have kept it US only and still use the old Google one for outside the US, as that seems to really be where the quality issue is with the data.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by blub on Thursday September 20, 2012 @02:37PM (#4549978)
Yahoo is using Nokia's API and Bing is in the process of doing the same thing.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by karlshea on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:38PM (#4549370)
And you came to this conclusion based on one bad app? Quite the leap it seems.

What's missing in all of these conversations is that Apple's contract with Google for mapping ended this year. No one knows what really happened for Apple to make this change.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by mootothemax on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:48PM (#4549430)
And you came to this conclusion based on one bad app? Quite the leap it seems.

This isn't about "one bad app," it's about a core smartphone app that everybody uses. That's why so many people are complaining and the story is kicking off all over the place.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by mitchty on Thursday September 20, 2012 @02:43PM (#4550016)
I've been using ios 6 maps since beta1, yeah its new, but to wit I don't use transit directions and in a direct comparison with android google maps, ios 6's maps worked fine.

This is in many ways who moved my cheese. I don't care if Google or Apple (who made the google maps app pre ios6 anyway using google apis) is responsible for the old maps app not being on ios6. If google wants their app on the apple store they can submit it.

If apple denies it thats another matter and not worth arguing right now.

ios6 is so much better than 5 overall I think you're being somewhat overly dramatic about one app. Yes it feels rushed, but its likely this is a stopgap due to contractual problems.

And besides, these are just phones. People are so up in arms about this its getting to fever pitch levels. Why everyone expects perfection from the start is beyond me. Its a start, and not yet perfect for everyone. Either it gets better and all this complaining was just for pageviews (most likely), or people actually vote with their wallets and switch.

Until that switch happens, these arguments are getting tiresome and to be honest aren't very constructive.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by lhnz on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:43PM (#4549403)
Apologies, I wasn't trying to represent what I said as fact hence the word "seems". However, I do feel that this has been a very lacklustre update from Apple...

I think it would have been worthwhile to keep the contract with Google (even if it's expensive) while investing in making a better Apple Maps app.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by jpdoctor on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:49PM (#4549436)
> No one knows what really happened for Apple to make this change.

I find it very unlikely this move was prompted by Google. Honestly, it looks positively amateurish the way the change was implemented by Apple.

I will admit it will drive my next phone purchase: Maps are my #2 usage after mail, I very much depend on it to get around.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by rustynails on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:12PM (#4549540)
Navigon for IOS TomTom for IOS www.google.com/maps in IOS

Take your pick. There are solutions that can be used to work around this issue and meet your needs.

Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by psgibbs on Thursday September 20, 2012 @02:32PM (#4549949)
I think this idea that every product Steve Jobs released was 100% quality is largely wrong – people just choose to only remember the hits. Apple has always released early - largely polished, but rough around the edges. Remember the early days of OSX? tons of loose ends. The first iPhone? definitely had stability issues, missing huge core features e.g. MMS. AppleTV? Ping? XCode 4?
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by api on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:48PM (#4549431)
Yeah. Maps is one of the most important smartphone apps. They might have just handed the market to Droid.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by DonnyV on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:04PM (#4549503)
Android already has market share, this will just widen the gap.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by saturdaysaint on Thursday September 20, 2012 @02:31PM (#4549940)
If this had any truth to it, Android would have already walked away with the market due to the iPhone's longstanding mediocre Maps app.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by samstave on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:10PM (#4549532)
It's just too bad Jobs is dead and is not here to personally fire the apple maps team.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by vineet on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:54PM (#4549464)
Or, Google can release their Map application ASAP and try to build more of a foothold in the iPhone market. I guess then they would have to fear Apple rejecting their app when the time is convenient.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by Osiris on Thursday September 20, 2012 @12:58PM (#4549482)
I'm pretty certain that Google won't be able to release a Maps App for iOS because it would violate the terms of replicating built in functionality. People can use the mobile web version, though.
Re:The Amazing iOS 6 Maps by chimeracoder on Thursday September 20, 2012 @01:17PM (#4549557)
> more of a foothold in the iPhone market.

More of a foothold? They already had virtually 100% (I'm exaggerating, but I can't think of anybody who used anything else for maps).

They don't have any incentive to make life easier for iPhone users. They have an incentive to remind iPhone users how they're really dependent on Google, not [just] Apple.