Out of curiosity, why do you believe that's the case?

I think there are certainly abuses of the system, but we should be focusing on stamping out that abuse, not just generally "slowing it down". A $100k price tag is not going to affect abuse all that much; yes, it will make it less profitable, but probably not to the point where it will fix anything.

As a US-born citizen working in the US, I would rather work with a smart, motivated person from another country than a mediocre person from the US. The problem is that there are a lot of non-exceptional people being brought in on these visas, so let's focus on stopping that as much as we can. And while there are plenty of exceptional people who are US citizens, there are also many more who are mediocre or worse; we should be importing talent in order to raise that average.

The sole purpose of companies hiring foreign workers is to pay less in wages. This results in lower wages for Americans. It’s that simple.

You think 4.5% of the world's population is smarter and works harder than the other 95.5%? Maybe there's other reasons.

The H1B program isn't for exceptionally smart workers.

O1 is there for that

Is it weird that there are like entire orgs practically of H1Bs at big tech companies these days? And if you hang out in the towns where the big offices are, the demographics are completely different from not that long ago and it’s not from the general demo shift in America since Chinese and Indians are not that large of a percent of immigrants overall. Like is there such a big shortage of workers that all of Redmond needs to be Indians now? If serving the economy demands that, perhaps we should reconsider whether serving the economy should be our top priority.

Why is it a problem? Indian people are great.

As humans, Indian people are as great as any other humans. In my experience, though, first generation families from India and China practically tend to be quite insular socially. They hang out amongst themselves. Which, like, I don’t blame them for, if I were them I’d probably do it too, but it has a strongly detrimental impact on the social environment for people who aren’t in those groups. When a house goes to one of those groups, it feels as if it disappears from the neighborhood. If the flow is slow enough then they are in theory functionally forced to integrate socially with the existing inhabitants, but the flow is not slow.

And by the way, what reality do we live in that your local megacorp can decide to radically alter your population demographic and people support the megacorps ability to do that? There was no vote for the existing inhabitants about whether they wanted to take the trade off, the decision was made for them by businessmen. It’s pretty weird when you think about it.

The American immigration has worked for years this way. Where do you think little Italy or greece part of town came into existense from? This is how immigrants over centuries have behaved. It's not just brown people thing. European immigrants did the same and still do it. If you tell some old NYer the street name in NYC, they can tell you what community or group of immigrants are known to live around there.

What at the end matters if if the immigrants are law abiding and contribute to the local economy. Indians hardly show up in any crime statistics and make up generally as part of high earning group of immigrants.

You are essentially saying “this has been a problem for other people in the past also, so we cannot consider it a problem when it happens today”. That does not seem like a strong argument to me…

No I am basically saying it's human nature - sticking to their own group, having biases, being racist. You were trying to make it some kind of Indian trait. We can always try to fight against all the creeping racism and biases, legally and lawfully, without targeting certain group.

Suddenly every immigrant has to be this pristine model minority which has never been the case. That's why I gave those examples. People will find ways to target immigrants no matter what. This kind of narrative I see popping up everywhere where people don't like immigrants. This isn't even US specific.

The goalpost keeps shifting from legal, law-abiding immigrants to they better assimilate, say nothing bad or we are going to create policies which actively target some group based on how a particular government feels about them.

How was I trying to make it some kind of Indian thing? The topic is H1Bs, and this instance of the problem, which as you point out is general, involves Indians. It’s not as if I singled out Indians artificially.

I do separately think there is a risk that what worked reasonably well when combining all Europeans may not work when combining all humans. There is no historical example to look at to go “oh yeah that does work fine in the long run”. At a completely abstract level, what we have been doing since the ‘60s is an experiment (combine all humans) that is different from the one we started with on this continent (combine all Europeans). Just because the first one worked doesn’t mean the second one will, right? Even if we ran the first one again from scratch, maybe we got lucky the first time, for all we know maybe that scenario only succeeds 10% of the time. Should we be at all cautious here, or is this just terrible evil heresy talk?

Hahahaha. No, it's not weird. Good lord. It's not your town to decide.

I'm white as heck and have worked with plenty of first-generation Indians, and if you can't manage to make friends with at least one of them, it's a skill issue. The problem is you.

Because they bring their racism here. https://www.npr.org/2020/10/12/922936053/california-workplac...

I have personally witnessed it myself. I have countless Indian friend who are candid with me. They are biased against whole communities. Blacks, Muslims, etc.

Indians hire Indians.

> I have personally witnessed it myself. I have countless Indian friend who are candid with me. They are biased against whole communities. Blacks, Muslims, etc.

So are Americans. People are going to bring their biases. If you are serious about this, start vetting all immigrants about thier biases or racism. Are you saying Cubans or Latinos don't bring their own racism? Or other Europeans didn't do it? Why is this cherry-picking going on?

As an IT worker, I honestly don't see many/any Cubans and Latinos in my day to day.

However I do see a ton, and I mean a ton of Indians and their hiring practices. Hence why I started my sentence with "I have personally witnessed it"

Considering how weirdly hostile you are, there's a much simpler explanation: you can't hide your contempt and it's creeping people out.

Isn't it the default human behavior? Pretty much everyone will be biased to hire from the same ethnicity, within same group, just because it's easy to communicate because of shared background.

Even easier to communicate if they stay in their own country among their own people with a shared background

But they are all brown. Not a pretty sight.