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Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by rowanG077 on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @09:54PM (#45284045)
I love that large companies keep showing us more and more often why you really, really shouldn't rely on them.
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by greyface- on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:07PM (#45284198)
Over a long enough time frame, this also includes any small company with ambitions to become a large company. Tiny Speck started in 2009 with a $1.5M seed round, before pivoting to Slack, before the $27B Salesforce acquisition.
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by stevage on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:28PM (#45284417)
Yep, I like small companies that are happy being small companies.
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by hopelite on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:07PM (#45284207)
It’s not even really just large companies, even though the extortion, predation, and vulture tactics tend to be rolled out once market capture and network effect has been achieved, which tends to correlate with being larger companies.

Frankly, we should all have learned by now after example upon example of this bait and switch type behavior being pulled on us. They lure the children into their windowless panel van with the candy of a cool offering and then violate us once they’ve slammed the doors shut and have us captured. Why are we still falling for this trap of becoming dependent on these hosted services?

Is it laziness? Lack of competence? Comfort? Stupidity? Foolishness? After shooting ourselves in the feet several times whose fault are these types of things? We know the predators will predate … Why do we still wander into their jaws?

We know there are open source Slack alternatives. Is it education? Is it naive contract terms? What makes us so foolish?

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by greyface- on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:10PM (#45284239)
> What makes us so foolish?

High time preference. The free stuff is here today, and the pain will only come much later, so I can disregard it for now.

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by Waterluvian on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:01PM (#45284127)
I’m sure smarter people have better terms for this but it feels like a sort of late stage capitalism thing where there’s really no room for anyone who first and foremost wants to do good things, at scale.

I’m curious now, what’s the largest company that’s clearly passing up additional revenue because they prefer to say, “nah we’re good. The current business model makes us enough money.”

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by desultir on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:06PM (#45284187)
I feel like any time a company goes public they lose the ability to pass up on revenue. The C-suite report to the board, who have a fiduciary duty to maximize profits.

Same with private VC/PE held companies. The board will replace the C-Suite if they aren't maximizing value.

You'd need to find a company which is huge but privately held by a group of people with only good intentions.

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by triceratops on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:27PM (#45284411)
> who have a fiduciary duty to maximize profits

* Fiduciary duty to act in shareholders' interests. This is not the same thing as "maximize profits".

Maximizing profits makes the stock price go up. That benefits the C-suite. Because they're paid in stock.

The board designs their compensation package that way because they figure "number go up" is the easiest way to show they're acting in shareholders' interests.

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by mr_tristan on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @11:09PM (#45284790)
There are a lot of mid-sized companies identified in the book _Hidden Champions of the 21st Century_. I just started the book, but it's exactly the ethos you're talking about here: these companies just focus on a niche, tend to sell to other businesses, and just stay doing this thing profitably, absolutely dominating their niche with razor focus.

I'm reading this book because, well, that's the kind of place I'd like to work. I think it makes sense to get a feel for how these places think, in order to really identify job opportunities

Edit: here's a Wikipedia page on the topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by Agraillo on Thursday September 18, 2025 @07:44AM (#45288450)
Thanks for sharing. Two companies come to mind: Strix for kettle controllers and Shimano for bike gears. Maybe they don't fit exactly to the Hidden champions category because they’re not very hidden from the public (many manufacturers mention their names on final products, assuming consumers might take that into account). So the criteria for “hidden champions” could be more flexible imo

Strix became less hidden for me personally after listening to The Life Scientific interview with John Taylor [1]. There is plenty of fascinating information, probably because Jim Al-Khalili is a great scientific interviewer. Recently, I recalled it in the context of AI, self-driving, and safety. Strix controllers have a second level of protection if the main automatic shut-off circuit fails. That’s probably why we never hear of fires or other incidents due to a failed Strix controller.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b42z87

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by mr_tristan on Thursday September 18, 2025 @12:54PM (#45291997)
Yeah, I think there's a lot more "good, focused" companies out there than what are covered in this hidden champions book. The book is just interesting to me. It highlights a lot of the economic export strength of Germany isn't due to the large corporations that people know, but a bunch of mid-sized companies people don't.

In some sense, what seems important is a business culture that has a mission or meaning to exist other than make shareholders money. I'd wager their employees will absolutely geek out about what the companies do throughout the organization. A lot of corporations these days, once you get above a couple of layers of management, is all fluff. I can't think of the last time I talked to a mid-level or above "engineering" manager in a tech company about any nuanced or interesting discussion about technology.

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by gary_0 on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:31PM (#45284456)
Not even "do good"; even just honest business where you exchange a good or service with a customer for a fair market price.

Technology allowed companies to expand and centralize on a national scale, and capital pushed that to the conclusion we're at now, where there are a few gigantic players (at most) and almost all recourse against bad faith has been precluded. Nowadays if a customer is taken advantage of, they can't drive 5 extra minutes in the opposite direction and take their business elsewhere, or shame the owner in the local paper. Only impenetrable monoliths remain.

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by krackers on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:07PM (#45284205)
https://kr-asia.com/at-usd-90-per-unit-seauto-is-quietly-swe...

>By 2019, Deng had turned his attention to consumer goods. Pool robots, though low-profile, offered untapped potential, especially in markets like the US, where high labor costs made automation more appealing.

>“For what these machines can do today, they should cost USD 300–400,” he said. “That’s already the cap. Anything higher is just an ‘IQ tax,’ unless the cleaning function actually gets significantly better.”

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by buzzerbetrayed on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:15PM (#45284278)
What is preventing you from competing with Slack and doing “good things at scale”?

The problem is that you want other people to fund your goodness.

Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by smithcoin on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:09PM (#45284224)
37signals?
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by DangitBobby on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:05PM (#45284180)
It's pretty much just rent extraction, or even feudalism, which you could argue is the end result of unchecked capitalism.
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by pcl on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @10:15PM (#45284273)
That seems like a pretty tough argument to make, to be honest.
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by DangitBobby on Thursday September 18, 2025 @03:04PM (#45293663)
No, not really. The features that distinguish between feudalism and capitalism are mostly to do with class mobility and hierachies. Capitalism without class mobility is indistinguishable from feudalism. All it takes is a couple of generations of unchecked markets and power accumulates completely in upper classes and we are back to feudalism. You can argue "no, because reasons" (paraphrasing) all you want. Good luck convincing me, though.
Re:Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year by pcl on Friday September 19, 2025 @05:26PM (#45306839)
> Good luck convincing me, though.

Thanks for the heads-up -- I'll pass.