Yes but that doesn't answer the question of how they got so close to nvidia.
> It could also happen that all their DUV investment allows them to discover a valuable DUV-derived tech tree branch that the west hasn't discovered yet.
But why wouldn't the west discover that same branch but now for EUV?
> Results are at least good enough that Huawei can produce 7nm-5nm-ish phones and sell them at profit.
Sidenote, I'd love to see some photos and an analysis of the quality of their process.
Talent pool and market conditions. China was already cultivating a talent pool for decades, with limited success. But it had no market. Nobody, including Chinese, wanted to buy Chinese stuff. Without customers, they lacked practice to further develop their qualities. The sanctions gave them a captive market. That allowed them to get more practice to get better.
> But why wouldn't the west discover that same branch but now for EUV?
DUV and EUV are very different. They will have different branches. The point however is not whether the west can reach valuable branches or not. It's that western commentators have a tendency to paint Chinese efforts as futile, a dead end. For the Chinese, this is about survival. This is why western commentators keep being surprised by Chinese progress: they expected the Chinese to achieve nothing. From the Chinese perspective, any progress is better than none, but no progress is ever enough.
Also to a certain degree you can just throw loads of GPUs at the problem.
So instead of 100k GB200s, you have ~1m of these cards. One thing china _is_ good at is is mass manufacturing.
There's all sorts of caveats to that, but I really think people are overlooking this scenario. I strongly suspect that they could ramp output of (much?) weaker cards far quicker than TSMC can ramp EUV fabrication.
Plus China has vastly superior grid infrastructure. They have a massive oversupply of heavy industry, so even if they hit capacity issues with such gargantuan amounts of cards I can easily see aluminium plants and what not being totally mothballed and supply rerouted to nearby newly built data centres.
It could also happen that all their DUV investment allows them to discover a valuable DUV-derived tech tree branch that the west hasn't discovered yet.
Results are at least good enough that Huawei can produce 7nm-5nm-ish phones and sell them at profit.
A teardown of the latest Huawei phone revealed that the chips produced more heat than TSMC equivalent. However, Huawei worked around that by investing massively into avdanced heat dissipation technology improvements, and battery capacity improvements. Success in semiconductor products is not achieved along only a single dimension, there are multiple ways to overcome limitations.
Another perspective is that, by domestically designing and producing chips, they no longer need to pay the generous margins for foreign IP (e.g., Qualcomm licensing fees), which is a huge cost saving and is beneficial for the economics of everything.