> And another strange thing - why UN didn't call out the genocide of Jewish people by HAMAS?

Just look at death tolls maybe? October 7, 1200 people. While despicable, nowhere near the effort Israel is putting in, right?

Aside from the affect that the Israeli government has pretty much said they want to get all the Palestinians out of Gaza and are actively working towards that.

No one is justifying October 7.

>Just look at death tolls maybe? October 7, 1200 people. While despicable, nowhere near the effort Israel is putting in, right?

Crime of genocide has nothing to do with numbers.

It sounds though that for you the numbers do matter, and that the 1200 deaths isn't enough for you. What number is enough for you?

>No one is justifying October 7.

You haven't heard any pro-Palestinian protests and their various supporters?

>Aside from the affect that the Israeli government has pretty much said they want to get all the Palestinians out of Gaza and are actively working towards that.

Moving refugees from one camp to another may be warranted to solve serious security issues (Jordan for example kicked out Palestinians from Jordan back then when the Palestinians attacked Jordan which was hosting them at the time - a lot of similarities to how Palestinians attacked Israel. Nobody argued against expelling Palestinians from Jordan back then). Or do you mean that Gaza is the Motherland of those living there, and they aren't refugees anymore?

> Crime of genocide has nothing to do with numbers.

It does, not in absolute sense put in percentages. Also, besides weapons of mass destruction you cannot commit genocide in a day on a population this big. It's the persistence that does it.

No one ever called 9/11 genocide either right?

> You haven't heard any pro-Palestinian protests and their various supporters?

I mean in this thread, obviously. You want to own all of the stuff coming out of ben gvir and smotrich? Because if you do, we can settle the genocide discussion right here.

> Moving refugees from one camp to another may be warranted to solve serious security issues

So as soon as you've invaded an area and created the refugees you can push them wherever you want?

We're not talking about Israel pushing refugees out of their country.

And finally, where are they supposed to go, and how?

  > Just look at death tolls maybe? October 7, 1200 people. While despicable, nowhere near the effort Israel is putting in, right?

So you declare genocide by the amount of people killed? Fine, if Israel were to kill 1200 people every four days, like Hamas did in October 2023, then we'd have far more than the current death toll. Hamas, given the chance, would be performing real genocide.

It should also be noted that most of Hamas's murders in October 2023 were on that first day, further bolstering my claim. And they did not target military leaders, warning away civilians like Israel does. Instead, the pulled babies from wombs and burned babies alive.

> Hamas, given the chance, would be performing real genocide.

Genocide requires intent and deeds. I think it's reasonable to consider the attacks of October 2023 to be genocide. The intent is clear from their founding statements, and the deeds likely qualify as well.

However, I also think it's reasonable to consider the ongoing war in Gaza to be genocide as well. The statements from officials waver but are often genocidal in nature, and the destruction and loss of life is too.

It's not a contest, both genocides are bad. But using one to justify the other doesn't make the second one better.

The Israeli side could only be accused of genocide by a very unfavorable interpretation of those statements, which are infrequent and contradicted by clear civilian warnings on the ground.

Contrast that with the frequent genocidal declarations made by the Hamas and other Muslim entities against the Jews, which themselves are confirmed by their actions on the ground.

> Hamas, given the chance, would be performing real genocide.

Sure, but they're not. Israel however? I think there is compelling evidence that it is being given the chance and taking the world up on it.

Again, no one is justifying what Hamas did.

But they are. They are at the forefront of a multi pronged effort to delegitimize the Jewish state.

Do you need for me to spell out how that would be genocide for the Jews, or are you at least familiar enough with the Middle East for that to be clear?

Be there no mistake, even if Hamas wins that does not mean peace. Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies are waiting to pour into the holy land, those Shiites will do the Sunni Hamas exactly what Hamas had done to the Jews. And Hamas knows this.

Please do spell out the end game. It looks like Hamas is currently reduced to a guerilla operation. They won't be eradicated but how they're close to winning is beyond me.

I still don't understand how you can be worried about one side committing genocide if you're okay with the other side doing it.

I'm far less worried that Hamas will genocide the Jews today and then I was 2 years ago. That said, my concerns about other Arab and Muslim entities genociding the Jews have not been alleviated. As for Gaza, my concern, and most other Israelis' concern, is the return of the hostages. Once those hostages are returned, this war will end.

Is your argument that if they do a genocide, you get to do a genocide? That's what it sounds like.

I'd love to get data from an unbiased source, but how do you do that in this situation? Ministry of Health can't be trusted, Israeli sources can't be trusted, independent journalists don't have reasonable access and are regularly killed while reporting.

> And another strange thing - why UN didn't call out the genocide of Jewish people by HAMAS?

I would think priority needs to go to activity that is ongoing. This report may help bring an end to the ongoing activity, but the Hamas attacks are not ongoing.

This report was specificially not on that topic, but mentioned that it may qualify as genocide. The ICC did issue an arrest warrant for a Hamas commander and there was widespread condemnation of the attacks. Further specific reporting would likely benefit from cooperation of Israeli sources, but Israel doesn't like to cooperate with the UN.