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Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by ceejayoz on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:41AM (#45139152)
Don't worry, it'll all be sunshine and roses when the new commissioner is confirmed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.J._Antoni
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by dakiol on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:01AM (#45139377)
From Wikipedia:

> Antoni graduated from St. Charles Borromeo Seminary with a Bachelor of Arts.[3] He then graduated from Northern Illinois University with a Master of Arts[3] and later a doctorate in economics in 2020

How can someone get a doctorate in economics when they studied "Bachelor/Master of Arts"?

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by dragonwriter on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:12AM (#45139511)
It’s not unusual for social sciences, including economics, degrees to be styled as “of Arts” (the original form for both Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees); newer forms like (“of Science”), except for specifically professional degrees, are affectations which may or may not denote any substantive difference (some universities have different colleges with different core requirements independent of degree, that offer BS/MS vs BA/MA degrees, others simply offer only one style for any given major despite similar core requirements.)

Some universities might only offer one despite having a few programs in fields where it is more common for degrees to have the opposite style; at one time, e.g., this was true of Caltech which only issued BS degrees for undergrad though there were one or two majors with very few undergraduate degrees issued in fields where BA would be more common at other institutions.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by rdlw on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:18AM (#45139584)
His Master of Arts is in economics. His master's thesis was "Fiscal Triumvirate: Examinations of Federal Deficit Spending and Interest Rates, State-Level Taxation and Domestic Migration, and the Irrelevance of State Credit Ratings to Investors".

So his background in economics probably got him into an economics PhD program.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by throw0101c on Friday September 05, 2025 @05:08PM (#45143649)
> So his background in economics probably got him into an economics PhD program.

And his thesis seems to be the only paper he has ever published (unless you count any contributions to Project 2025?). He has one citation to his name, compared to the previous BLS commissioner:

> In reality, Antoni’s “education and vast experience” boils down to one scholarly citation of his Northern Illinois University dissertation on fiscal policy—from the Texas Public Policy Foundation in 2021, during the time that Antoni worked there. McAntarfer’s own research, The Wall Street Journal found, earned 1,327 citations.

* https://archive.is/https://www.thenation.com/article/politic...

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by triceratops on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:10AM (#45139498)
It's more concerning he got his PhD only 5 years ago and is somehow considered qualified for this job now.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by xrd on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:16AM (#45139549)
Look, he IS also a veteran. To be specific, a meme war veteran, but it has to count for something.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by 0xffff2 on Friday September 05, 2025 @12:02PM (#45140092)
At this point I'm honestly impressed that he has a relevant PHD _at all_.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by moi2388 on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:14AM (#45139535)
No clue. The college where he got his bachelor only has theology and philosophy, so he doesn’t even have a bachelors in economics.

Also, this is his PhD thesis. It’s mind-boggling to me that this is apparently doctorate-worthy, I personally find this lacking even for a bachelor thesis:

https://huskiecommons.lib.niu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by ecshafer on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:24AM (#45139647)
To steelman this, it isn't abnormal for people to get a Bachelors in one thing and a masters or phd in another. Typically the school makes them do some pre-requisite courses for a foundation as part of the masters. I know someone for example with an english degree and a masters in data science, who had to take a couple additional statistics and programming courses, and another person with a math undergrad and a masters in electrical engineering that basically had to take circuits, E&M, and electronics (so a good chunk of the EE undergrad) before starting graduate courses.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by throw0101c on Friday September 05, 2025 @05:11PM (#45143679)
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by jjice on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:06AM (#45139443)
I was under the impression that your graduate degrees didn't have to be related to undergrad at all, but I know nothing about these corners of higher education.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by MangoToupe on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:07AM (#45139448)
That's correct. If you can convince a doctoral program to take you, you can get a PhD in it.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by Traubenfuchs on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:15AM (#45139543)
I know a big 4 strategy consultant who has a bachelor and master degree in business who, for some reason, could only get a phd position at our local university of agriculture/brewery/bio-technology and wrote a pointless thesis about a sustainability topic he had zero interest in to get his stupid phd title.

Now he is earning breath taking amounts of money by churning out power point documents so I guess his path was correct.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by AnimalMuppet on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:34AM (#45139775)
If they are pointless power point documents about topics he has zero interest in, then it may have been good training...
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by dragonwriter on Friday September 05, 2025 @01:01PM (#45140828)
Yeah, one of my friends in college got his BA in Rhetoric & Communication and was accepted directly into a Physics Ph. D. program.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by garciansmith on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:16AM (#45139547)
His M.A. was in Economics. Not that, as others have pointed out, you need to have a bachelors or M.A. in the same field as your Ph.D.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by woodson on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:12AM (#45139517)
I think the name of the degree (BA/MA etc.) is mostly related to what university or department it is conferred by. For example, if you finish your master studies in Chemistry at the University of Vienna, you get a Master of Arts.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by tzs on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:16AM (#45139556)
> How can someone get a doctorate in economics when they studied "Bachelor/Master of Arts"?

As opposed to Bachelor/Master of Science, I presume?

If that's the case it because "<degree> of Arts" and "<degree> of Science" don't actually mean what a majority of people think they do.

In the US there is no inherent difference between BA and BS in fields that most people would think of as sciences (hard or social). What degree a given set of coursework earns is entirely up to the school. All of the following exist in the wild:

• BS is the only choice. (Caltech, for example. Even English majors--and yes, there is an occasional English major at Caltech--end up with a BS).

• BA is the only choice. UC Berkeley is an example in this category for math and physics.

• Both are offered, with identical coursework and requirements. You can have whichever you want. Some will even for a small fee give you two diplomas, so you can use whichever seems appropriate for the situation.

• Both are offered, from the same department, with different in-major coursework and aims. One may be aimed toward students aiming to go into research, and one toward those aiming to go into teaching, for instance.

• Both are offered, from different departments. For example, UC Berkeley's College of Letters and Sciences offers a BA in chemistry, and the College of Chemistry offers a BS in chemistry. Computer science can be taken at Berkeley in the College of Letters and Science for a BA, or in the College of Engineering for a BS.

• Both are offered, with the same in-major coursework, but differ in out-of-major requirements. So, the BA and BS would require the exact same science and math courses, but the BA has specific breadth requirements to produce a well rounded education, whereas the BS lets you take pretty much what you want as long as you satisfy the math and science requirements and any general requirements of your school.

Note: since this has "--"s and a list, I suppose I should mention that starting at "In the US" it is a copy/paste (with a minor tweak) of something I wrote many years ago when the question of BA vs BS came up, long before LLMs arrived. :-)

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by lenerdenator on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:06AM (#45139441)
"Of Arts" just means an art, not necessarily "Art".

You can get a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science or a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science at my alma mater, albeit from different colleges.

Maybe that art was the art of economics, which seems to be more subjective than actual painting.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by dragonwriter on Friday September 05, 2025 @01:07PM (#45140910)
“of Arts” comes from the Liberal Arts, the seven traditional fields covered in medieval universities, the Bachelor of Arts being the basic degree in medieval universities, the Master of Arts being the subsequent degree which also conferred the qualification to teach the liberal arts, and after those degrees were doctoral degrees in the “higher faculties” of Law, Medicine, and Theology.

While no longer using the Trivium and Quadrivium comprising the traditional Liberal Arts as the sum of the programs, the name of the degrees has been retained widely, and used for degrees in almost any field of study, even while some institutions also offer Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees with other styles (particularly “of Science”). There is no consistent meaning or differentiation to the “of Arts” or “of Science” styles, though they may have signify institution-specific differences in curriculum at some institutions.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by hackable_sand on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:46AM (#45139212)
An insurrectionist recommended by Bannon, go figure
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by thrance on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:00AM (#45139359)
Elect a clown; get a circus.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by andyjohnson0 on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:29AM (#45139712)
Just as with social media and trust within society, destroying the credibility of US government economic statistics may be the intention. When nothing is trustworthy then lots of upsides may become available to exploit. And everything becomes deniable.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by NewJazz on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:46AM (#45139210)
What's interesting is that Trump should be happy with a weak labor market, as it helps him with that interest rate on debt problem he seems to have.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by 0xbadcafebee on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:59AM (#45139342)
There's a bunch of advantages to high unemployment. It reduces inflation. You get to champion a bill to introduce a new stimulus package (whether or not it gets accepted, you look good). A rate cut means stock boosts which politicians/the rich and corporations like. It makes it easier for employers to hire (bigger pool to choose from), wages lower, and it tamps down on those pesky "union agitators" as everyone is fearing for their livelihood more. All the downsides are long-term and affect individuals more than corporations or politicians.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by throw10920 on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:54AM (#45139289)
Huh, how does a weak labor market reduce interest?
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by algorithmmonkey on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:57AM (#45139333)
The Federal Reserve operates under a "dual mandate" from Congress to promote maximum employment and stable prices (low inflation). As unemployment rises, the Fed will lower interest rates to stimulate investment (increase employment opportunities).
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by vladimirralev on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:38AM (#45139822)
If AI is the cause, it will only stimulate investment in more AI and accelerate the layoffs though. And because they don't have other tools, looks like this is exactly what they are going to do. Investment tends to concentrate massively at the festest-growing trend which this time is just replacing workers with AI.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by 0xbadcafebee on Friday September 05, 2025 @02:19PM (#45141810)
Which will deepen the hole, until we crest over the AI peak of inflated expectations, bottom out in the trough of disillusionment, and start creeping up the slope of enlightenment. The next 12 months should be worsening unemployment, more rate cuts, higher AI stock prices. Once we bottom out in disillusionment (or companies run out of AI capital), the stock will plummet again, AI companies will die off, unemployment reduces, and rates return to previous levels.

That's the "exists-in-a-vacuum" picture anyway. Stimulus, tariffs, a new war, or some other bullshit will change the results.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by lenerdenator on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:08AM (#45139464)
That really just feels like they're operating with the mandate to keep the cost of labor low, and the main way to do that is by not paying people enough.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by algorithmmonkey on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:36AM (#45139797)
Can you explain how the Fed is keeping the cost of labor low, and what they should do to help folks paid enough? I'm not sure I see the connection.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by ceejayoz on Friday September 05, 2025 @02:04PM (#45141609)
> Can you explain how the Fed is keeping the cost of labor low...

The Fed calls workers being able to push for significantly increased salaries an "overheated labor market".

https://www.kansascityfed.org/research/economic-bulletin/ris...

"The same influx of immigrant workers that helped fill job openings also dampened wage pressures across the affected industries and states. At the industry level, sectors with some of the highest immigrant workforce growth, such as construction and manufacturing, saw the sharpest deceleration in wage growth (specifically, average hourly earnings) from 2021 to 2023."

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by lenerdenator on Friday September 05, 2025 @05:51PM (#45144069)
Maybe I should expand it to say it sounds like they're under a mandate to keep people more-or-less economically stuck.

They need to keep employment high and keep prices stable. Their main lever for controlling these two things is the prime interest rate. They kept that rate low for a long time. Capital now thinks that being able to get money for cheap is the norm. If it can't get money for cheap, well, that's a problem, because capital's mandate is to get more capital.

If you're being incentivized to keep prices low and employment high by this institution, while also trying to accumulate capital for yourself, you are more likely to employ people at lower wages in order to keep prices low instead of taking the hit in reduced capital accumulation to employ people at higher wages while keeping prices low. Furthermore, any sort of sane prime interest rate now seems high to capital, so that additional cost is also factored in as why costs must rise and wages must drop to keep the accumulation rate of capital as high as possible.

Is there anything wrong with accumulation of capital? In and of itself, no, but when you have people with net worths in the hundreds of billions of dollars making the decisions on how to allocate resources for their own continued benefit, well, you get a reduction in economic returns for the rest of the economy.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by cj on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:57AM (#45139331)
Simply put, when the economy is in the shitter, the federal reserve lowers interest rates. When the economy is doing well, interest rates tend to go up.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by lenerdenator on Friday September 05, 2025 @11:11AM (#45139506)
That's the way it used to work.

Then we went through a decade of stupidly-low interest rates in the 10s, while the economy was doing decently well.

Maybe it was because of low interest rates. Though then you could argue capital just doesn't want to have to pay the price of operating in a borrowing environment where the average person can go down to the local bank, get a 90 day CD at 5-ish percent, and have a nice guaranteed source of steadily-growing rainy day cash, which, in turn, makes it less likely that they'll gamble it on stocks and bonds that capital holds most of its wealth in.

Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by rogerkirkness on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:55AM (#45139302)
It indicates that the cost of capital might be too high to justify investing, so you can reduce it in order to spur investment (like during ZIRP).
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by amanaplanacanal on Friday September 05, 2025 @10:56AM (#45139309)
Federal reserve looks at unemployment rate when deciding whether to lower interest rates.
Re:US economy added just 22,000 jobs in August, unemployment... by throw0101c on Friday September 05, 2025 @05:10PM (#45143671)