News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by udev4096 on Saturday July 26, 2025 @01:32AM (#44691609)
Moxie is wrong, he likes to project his own ideas as wisdom and always factually correct. P2P networks have flourished. Bittorrent, bitcoin, Tor just to name a few successful ones
Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by jcgl on Saturday July 26, 2025 @11:04AM (#44694635)
The size of the whole pie has grown, and, yes, so have P2P networks.

However, centralized networks of various kinds have grown too. From application-level networks (e.g. networks messengers from Signal to Discord; payment networks from Visa to AliPay) to transport- and network-layer networks (e.g. cloud-oriented client-server topologies; Tailscale), you see growth in the centralized world too. While I don’t have hard data, I’d casually assert that that growth is comparatively far larger than the P2P growth.

Also, if you’re referring to Moxie’s classic post about centralization vs. decentralization[0], I think you’re mischaracterizing it; it doesn’t claim that P2P is altogether inferior, wrong, or any such thing. I’d summarize his point as being that anchoring your application to a decentralized P2P protocol makes your application development less agile. In other words, there are engineering tradeoffs there, between centralization and decentralization. When he weighed the tradeoffs for making Signal, he came down on the side of a centralized architecture.

[0] https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by fsflover on Sunday July 27, 2025 @02:30PM (#44703403)
> When he weighed the tradeoffs for making Signal, he came down on the side of a centralized architecture.

And as a result, Signal has a single point of failure and hacker/governments attacks.

Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by jcgl on Monday July 28, 2025 @07:30AM (#44709773)
Due to its (afaik) unrivaled privacy-preserving architecture, the Signal servers have systematically less info on you than, e.g. a Matrix server. The risks of an attack should therefore be much lower.

Oversimplifying a little bit here, but I believe the most likely outcome of a Signal hack would be downtime, rather than a data leak. Contrast that with e.g. matrix.org (where the majority of Matrix users are).

Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by fsflover on Monday July 28, 2025 @12:54PM (#44712729)
> Contrast that with e.g. matrix.org (where the majority of Matrix users are)

This effectively confirms that federation is important, i.e., you shouldn't use the same server as everyone else, for your security.

> Due to its (afaik) unrivaled privacy-preserving architecture

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29888228

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39445976

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/13842

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42788647

Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by fsflover on Saturday July 26, 2025 @06:06PM (#44697301)
This. There's a good reply to Moxie's article here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21936929
Re:The Future Is Not Self-Hosted by waldopat on Monday July 28, 2025 @11:49AM (#44712036)
Thanks! There's a lot to chew on here, but it's a very important discussion.