Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by littlecranky67 on Friday July 18, 2025 @02:22AM
(#44601759)
I get how that works for arithmetic operations - what about stuff like sorting, finding an element in a set etc? This would require knowledge of the cleartext data, wouldn't it?
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Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by barisozmen on Friday July 18, 2025 @02:24AM
(#44601772)
You can reduce anything happening on the computer to arithmetic operations. If you can do additions and multiplications, then it's turing complete. All others can be constructed from them.
Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by littlecranky67 on Friday July 18, 2025 @02:36AM
(#44601851)
While correct, that doesn't answer the question at all, though. If I have my address book submited into an FHE system and want to sort by name - how do you do that if the FHE system does not have access to cleartext names?
Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by barisozmen on Friday July 18, 2025 @02:45AM
(#44601916)
You can do that by encrypting the names. You send encrypted names to the FHE-server, and then the server does necessary sorting computations on it.
The point of FHE is it can operate on gibberish-looking ciphertext, and when this ciphertext decrypted afterwards, the result is correct.
Indeed, there are those working on faster FHE sorting: https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/551.pdf
Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by gadders on Friday July 18, 2025 @04:55AM
(#44602606)
Honestly it breaks my brain as well. I just have to take it on trust that it apparently works.
Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by Tryk on Friday July 18, 2025 @07:36AM
(#44603569)
When comparing two ciphertexts A,B a FHE sorting function will output a sorted pair of two new ciphertexts:
E.g. FHE_SORT(A,B) -> (X,Y)
where Dec(X)<Dec(Y)
But without decoding, there's no way of knowing whether X (or Y) comes from A or B.
Source: II. D of https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/995.pdf
Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by dcow on Friday July 18, 2025 @10:11AM
(#44604844)
It’s not that simple. The client has to send the server the comparison function.
To do anything practical the server usually needs to provide the client with gigabytes of per-client-key encrypted seed data.
Re:Fully Homomorphic Encryption and the Dawn of a Truly Priv...
by j2kun on Friday July 18, 2025 @02:27PM
(#44608185)
Comparisons can be implemented by approximating a < b with
0.5 * (sign(a - b) + 1)
And the sign function can be approximated by a polynomial that uses only additions and multiplications and products with constants.Other FHE schemes have support for small-bitwidth lookup tables that makes supporting comparison more direct.