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Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by Reubachi on Thursday June 26, 2025 @09:23AM (#44387175)
Your linked video is interesting, but I fail to see how this at all differentiates/promotes drone usage versus artillery, indirect fire.

Your video shows something that an artillery corps could accomplish just as easily and not at all be prone to EW.

Granted, moving indirect fire is probably more expensive than a single fpv drone dropping a thermite bomb, but at scale indirect fire is far cheaper, more effective, and critically not prone to EW.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Thursday June 26, 2025 @10:28AM (#44387790)
Think of the fpv drone like a smol guided TOW missile at extremely low cost.

The artillery, while destructive, is not going to be nearly as accurate. If you want artillery to hit something on the move accurately you want something like a laser adjusted Excalibur round.

The drone is actually extremely efficient.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by CapricornNoble on Thursday June 26, 2025 @10:52AM (#44388034)
Laser-guided artillery rounds have been around a while. The Soviets were using laser-guided 240mm heavy mortar rounds in Afghanistan.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1351804050035499...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnopol_(weapon_system)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M712_Copperhead

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Thursday June 26, 2025 @11:29AM (#44388367)
I was one of the first non special operations troops to use a modern infantry-company sized drone (small, low cost) to guide conventional and guided artillery in 2008-9 for the US.

Laser guided Excalibur rounds didn't come out until much later, same for the laser guided jdams. And the cost of those is much higher, plus logistical an deployment cost, than a FPV drone.

Edit: I also don't know anybody that ever fired a copperhead round in anger. That was very much a product of 80s and 90s doctrine to counter Russian armor.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by tguvot on Thursday June 26, 2025 @12:09PM (#44388738)
there are now laser/gps guided mortars. probably still more expensive than drone but easier to deploy
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Thursday June 26, 2025 @02:00PM (#44389731)
Yep, 120mms I think.

You won't find them with light infantry, but you will with Cav / Mech units.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by tguvot on Thursday June 26, 2025 @03:27PM (#44390474)
special forces and other unspecified units: https://breakingdefense.com/2024/02/iron-sting-an-exclusive-...
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Thursday June 26, 2025 @04:06PM (#44390783)
Sorry I'm talking US specifically.

To my knowledge there still isn't a laser guided mortar in the US inventory with dual mode laser terminal guidance. HEGM project was cancelled in 2018.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by tguvot on Thursday June 26, 2025 @06:17PM (#44392032)
well, if usa will get a bundle of iron dome, iron fist and iron sting, it will get a cool 30% discount
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by ponector on Thursday June 26, 2025 @07:20PM (#44392407)
GPS guided munitions like Excalibur are useless against peer adversary. Costs as much as 100 regular rounds and as 200+ FPV drones but has zero accuracy thanks to EW and jamming.
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Thursday June 26, 2025 @07:45PM (#44392564)
... Not quite.

Local airborne EW platforms can relay GPS signal.

Combined with Inertial Navigation System reduces the CEP.

Laser terminal guidance gets it on point.

The US has a lot of work to do in EW - it also has done a lot of work to prepare for some of these scenarios.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by ponector on Friday June 27, 2025 @08:19AM (#44396222)
And yet, more than a year ago: The US gave up sending Ukraine Excalibur guided artillery shells costing $100,000 because they rarely hit their target, report says.
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Friday June 27, 2025 @11:23AM (#44397510)
I mean, the US isn't flying our EW aircraft over Ukraine.

So yeah that is in line with what I have said.

US doctrine is based in air dominance.

Also, most Excalibur rounds do not have laser guidance kits. Those are much newer and more expensive. We may have given Ukraine a handful, if that. Still requires laser designation by airborne or land forces, but can give you excellent accuracy even in completely denied GPS environments.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by dinfinity on Thursday June 26, 2025 @11:08AM (#44388172)
Drone 1 (or any other means) destroys the canopy. Drones 2-10 are no longer hindered by said canopy and deliver their payload with extreme and dynamic precision.

Remember that the argument was basically that drones can do nothing useful in (heavily) forested terrain. They can with a little bit of creativity.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by originalvichy on Thursday June 26, 2025 @12:44PM (#44389055)
I guess we live in different regions. Everything north of Estonia/Denmark is thick spruce and pine forest. I’ve seen what artillery does to these trees, but I’d be hesitant to say a drone could lift something heavy enough to serve like Vietnam war era ”daisy cutters”. Artillery explodes closer to the forest floor.
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by tguvot on Thursday June 26, 2025 @01:20PM (#44389344)
russians really didnt like this last year https://youtu.be/SUe7SJgVMmo?t=110
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Friday June 27, 2025 @11:35AM (#44397607)
Last line isn't necessary correct. Artillery rounds have different types of fuses.

A US VT (variable time) fuse is meant for airburst - for example to splinter a forest canopy.

Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by neuralRiot on Thursday June 26, 2025 @04:56PM (#44391269)
Isn’t artillery easier to locate/ counter attack than a drone operator station?
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by tobias3 on Thursday June 26, 2025 @05:21PM (#44391550)
RCH 155 which Ukraine has now can shoot while moving. That should make it harder to counter.
Re:I Fought in Ukraine and Here's Why FPV Drones Kind of Suck by esseph on Friday June 27, 2025 @11:37AM (#44397643)
Yes.

Run over to the impact crater that was just made, and with a little experience you can quickly know the round type, direction, and distance. If you have those last two you can rattle off a quick counter fire mission.

Artillery counter-fire radar systems can also identify and track artillery/mortar fire.