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Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by sjsdaiuasgdia on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @01:39PM (#44301673)
> we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state,

I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by moduspol on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @03:35PM (#44302986)
It may blow your mind to discover there is more to the story than that he was simply asking for a warrant.

> New York City Comptroller Brad Lander was arrested for assaulting law enforcement and impeding a federal officer.

[1] https://x.com/dhsgov/status/1935040871717916825?s=61

EDIT: Video here: https://x.com/courtneycgross/status/1935010369077915990?s=61

A little more than asking for a warrant.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by scienceman on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @04:23PM (#44303520)
I am not seeing the "assaulting law enforcement" in this video -- am I missing something?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by foogazi on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @05:17PM (#44304066)
What’s with the bootlickers in these posts ?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by detourdog on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @06:16PM (#44304564)
The USA is 34% bootlickers.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by MasihMinawal on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @06:21PM (#44304605)
still less than a quarter
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by BugsJustFindMe on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @06:42PM (#44304775)
34% is more than a quarter
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by morkalork on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @06:53PM (#44304883)
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by detourdog on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:36PM (#44305125)
I combed that story over and couldn't find out if it was true. Did it fail because 4 is biffer than 3?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by morkalork on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:50PM (#44305222)
Huh, yeah the article just kind of... ends. Strange. The fiasco has a wiki article so make of that what you will:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-pound_burger

>This misunderstanding stemmed from consumers focusing on the numbers "3" and "4," leading them to conclude that one-third (1/3) was smaller than one-fourth (1/4), even though the opposite is true

I wonder if there's a correlation between those consumers and Trump voters?

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by BugsJustFindMe on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:25PM (#44305791)
The CBC article is also great. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/how-failing-at-fr...

> More than half the people in the focus groups questioned the price of the third-pounder. They wanted to know why they should have to pay the same price for a third of a pound as they did for a quarter pound at McDonald's. They said A&W was overcharging them.

It really makes you think.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by MasihMinawal on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @08:30AM (#44309295)
haha yes
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by scienceman on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @04:23AM (#44307815)
Not a bootlicker -- if the commenter said the video is of Lander assaulting law enforcement, I expect to see it.

Edit: this was the video linked https://x.com/courtneycgross/status/1935010369077915990

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by msgodel on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @02:07PM (#44302010)
Government employees have more responsibilities than normal US citizens. If he was hiding someone he was derelict in that responsibility and sending the law after him is completely reasonable.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by sjsdaiuasgdia on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @02:23PM (#44302173)
He wasn't hiding anyone. He was out in a hallway, along with the person he had linked arms with. Watch the video.

He was refusing to unlink his arm from the person ICE wanted to detain until ICE presented documentation establishing the legality of what they were doing. It was a perfectly reasonable request.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by ars on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @01:41PM (#44301706)
This title is editorialized by whoever posted it, the article does not support this interpretation. He was not arrested for asking a question, but rather for impeding what they were doing by refusing to let go.

Maybe he was right to do so, maybe not, but it had nothing to do with "asking a question".

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by jzebedee on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @01:58PM (#44301907)
Editorializing what, exactly? The rule of law?

"what they were doing" is attempting to illegally abduct someone. The comptroller's "impeding" was a demand to see the one thing that would make their request a legal arrest.

Instead, they arrested the comptroller without even a pretense of the law.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by anthony_d on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @03:05PM (#44302681)
ICE agents are not generally required to present warrants. The agent has all sorts of conditions where they get to say no. If you think you’re above the law and can tell them what to do then you’re going to be arrested.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by scienceman on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @04:24PM (#44303548)
Agents who are masked and don't have any obligations to present warrants before abducting someone... really are we saying this is reasonable?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by lazide on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @06:14PM (#44304541)
Police in general don’t need to show warrants to arrest people. In high profile situations it may be done to minimize political blowback, but clearly that is not a primary concern in this situation (except toward individual officers, which is why they are masking).

In many situations, they just need a documentable/articulable (to a judge, later) reasonable belief that a crime was occurring in their presence, or in other situations that a specific crime had occurred and there was a reasonable belief that person had committed that crime.

Resisting arrest, and impeding official business of a police officer are usually arrest-able offenses almost anywhere.

Details vary by jurisdiction and crime, but ‘you need a warrant to arrest someone’ is an edge case, not the common case. In those cases, it’s also often an indictment or bench warrant.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by scienceman on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @04:33AM (#44307871)
That all makes sense, but these don't look like police officers — these are guys wearing backwards baseball caps and surgical masks. Effectively, our trust that someone holds position of authority in law enforcement is based on their uniform and badge.

If we normalize some dude in a mask and a baseball cap as someone that has the authority to arrest you and put you in an unmarked van, that represents a real and serious breakdown of trust and order in society.

ICE agents should wear a real uniform (ICE with their real name), have uncovered faces, and be required to show badge/authorization upon request -- otherwise members of society have to reason to trust them (or people who look like them).

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by lazide on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @11:34AM (#44310810)
Yup, and don’t forget DEA getting into full on shoot outs while dressed even worse.

It’s a real problem, just like no knock warrants, asset seizure, etc.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by anon291 on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:27PM (#44305478)
You can legally arrest someone without a warrant, if they are committing a crime
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by timr on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:14PM (#44305018)
> I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials.

Some basic facts are true here:

a) Brad Lander had no official capacity in that situation.

b) As a random person, he had no right to demand to see any documents, whatsoever, from the people doing the arrest.

c) Even if he thought the detention was illegal, and the police were completely fake -- and let's be real, he didn't think that -- the right way to handle it would be to call the police.

You don't just get to throw yourself in the middle of a law-enforcement action without consequence because you're a politician (or upset, or "moral", or...)

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:37PM (#44305138)
This "let them do it, and try to rectify wrongs later" model is why we end up with innocent gay hairdressers in CECOT.

There are clearly established procedures for US law enforcement (which includes ICE). If they are not following those procedures, then any citizen has the right to raise this as an issue, politician or not. They don't get to just haul people away because you have no "official capacity".

Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes.

The 2nd amendment crowd are strong on the idea of guns as a means of resisting tyranny. Other people feel similarly about standing up to law enforcement being done illegally.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by timr on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:41PM (#44305161)
> Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes.

Well, you can theorize a "moral duty" to do whatever you want, but that won't stop you from getting actually arrested. But you do you.

The thing about being a martyr for your beliefs is that it comes with a downside. This article is trying to stir up controversy that someone doing something illegal (i.e. obstruction) was arrested.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:22PM (#44305432)
Getting arrested for complaining about illegal law enforcement action that is taking place is the sort of downside that history will write as heroic.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by anon291 on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:24PM (#44305452)
> any citizen has the right to raise this as an issue, politician or not. They don't get to just haul people away because you have no "official capacity".

Yes, you do have a right to raise this as an issue... but not anywhere anyway. In all this discussion about the rule of law, we forget that the rule of the law also dictates how citizen redresses are to be handled... in a court of law, using established procedures.

> The 2nd amendment crowd are strong on the idea of guns as a means of resisting tyranny. Other people feel similarly about standing up to law enforcement being done illegally.

False equivocation... The 2nd amendment crowd has an amendment to our constitution allowing them to do what they do: own weapons. There is no amendment that lets you willy-nilly march into a court and demand papers. If you want that, I would suggest writing your legislator to propose such an amendment.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:53PM (#44305619)
1. I suggest you check the meaning of equivocation. I think you meant equivalence.

2. I did not equate the two, other than as a means of resisting tyranny. You have no legal right (other than in NH) to seek to overthrow the government, 2nd amendment or otherwise.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by NemoNobody on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @10:11PM (#44306066)
What does legal have to do with anything?

If someone is trying to overthrow the government - they will be Patriots if they win.

Legal doesn't matter at all if someone is at that point

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by bokoharambe on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:36PM (#44305517)
It's hilarious to see people talking about rule of law when the President of the United States himself is not bound by it. The President! You can see it very clearly why interwar liberalism failed. As Schmitt points out, they were too caught up in constitutional handwringing to comprehend that they had entered a state of exception, and that normal laws and procedures were not to be followed.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by kevingadd on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:55PM (#44305264)
If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone, citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it? Just stand back and watch? That's the world you want to live in, one where kidnappings are normal?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by ensignavenger on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:11PM (#44305369)
They were wearing uniforms, I watched the video. Badges were not clearly visible in the video, but they certainly had uniforms.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by disattention on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:58PM (#44305644)
Anyone can literally just buy/make a uniform. Especially concerning if badges aren't visible. This argument doesn't hold much water imo.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by ensignavenger on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:12PM (#44305714)
Perhaps, but the comment I was replying to was claiming "not wearing uniforms" which isn't what was going on. I have no idea if badges were displayed at any point, but this was a federal courthouse, one would hope that they would be asking for identification. It should also be noted that according to the article, NYPD was present at the time.

I don't think, given the facts I currently have, that claiming he didn't know they were real ICE agents is going to hold much water.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by FireBeyond on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @03:44PM (#44312756)
> It should also be noted that according to the article, NYPD was present at the time.

Two NYPD officers were present, Landers' security detail. They weren't there to effect or assist with the arrest.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by snypher on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @10:01PM (#44306001)
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/17/nyregion/brad-lander-immi...

No-one in the banner image of this article has a uniform? Is it too much to ask to be uniformed while acting in this capacity? There doesn't seem to be a need for subterfuge, they just don't want the bad optics.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by ensignavenger on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @10:10PM (#44306056)
Oh look, the NYT got a picture to spin their yarn! Maybe watch the NYTs own video clip just below it?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by timr on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:00PM (#44305305)
> If a bunch of armed thugs who aren't wearing uniforms or badges show up and abduct someone citizens don't have the right or obligation to do something about it?

Sure you do. Call the police. Record it, capture the details for evidence.

> Just stand back and watch?

Again, you're welcome to call the police. But no, you don't just get to rush in and start interfering because your sophisticated understanding of the circumstances as a complete nobody make you feel like Captain America.

> That's the world you want to live in, one where kidnappings are normal?

It's obviously not a "kidnapping". Nobody seriously believes that -- most obviously, Brad Lander, who wouldn't be screaming for a warrant from "kidnappers".

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by kevinh on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:05PM (#44305328)
A few days ago someone shot people while pretending to be a police officer. Someone impersonating ICE for kidnapping isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by timr on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:08PM (#44305356)
Right. So your logic is: because someone, somewhere, once did something illegal while dressed as a police officer, we should interfere with every arrest, everywhere, because they might be fake police?

Or are you just restricting this logic to plainclothes officers, who aren't wearing uniforms at all?

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by acdha on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:08PM (#44305694)
The argument being offered is that if the police follow the law, the problem goes away and there’s no impact on legitimate law enforcement activity.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by speakfreely on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @10:37PM (#44306178)
So until every police officer follows the law, everywhere, in every instance, you believe anyone should be entitled to obstruct arrests if they disagree with the law?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by acdha on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @10:56PM (#44306279)
That’s a great example of a straw man argument. I especially like the way you start by acknowledging that the question is official misconduct but by the end of the sentence have flipped it to blame people for expecting law enforcement officers to follow the law.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by speakfreely on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @11:38PM (#44306451)
Sure, much as yours was a great example of the perfectionist fallacy.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by croon on Thursday June 19, 2025 @10:14AM (#44318886)
How would you identify an arrest by law enforcement to know whether or not you are obstructing it?
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by apparent on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:09PM (#44305361)
Yes, and a few days ago some "peacekeepers" in UT tried to shoot someone whom they perceived to be a threat, and ended up shooting and killing a bystander nearby. Situations are complicated, and assuming you know what's going on, and that you can help, is presumptuous.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by acdha on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:16PM (#44305739)
That argument works better against the position: things which create confusion increase the odds of serious problems. Reducing uncertainty by having clear rules makes it safer for everyone: that “good guy with a gun” is far more likely to be involved in a tragic mistake not because they have any desire to be but because it’s a snap judgement with limited information and bystanders. Armed paramilitaries abducting people in a manner indistinguishable from a cartel kidnapping or police impersonation is dramatically increasing the risk to those officers snd everyone nearby for the same reason, and they’re not doing anything they couldn’t do without following the law with identification, serving legal warrants, etc.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by anon291 on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:26PM (#44305465)
And a few days ago, some guy crossed a border with a young girl he passed off as his daughter when in reality he was a sex trafficker and going to sell the girl into sex slavery.

Since we're all clutching our pearls, we might as well clutch all of them.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by acdha on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:20PM (#44305768)
The difference is that nobody is defending that guy, whereas misconduct by these officers is being defended by some people as a political tactic. There is no conflict in saying both things are bad, and indeed we teach kindergarteners that two wrongs don't make a right.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by disattention on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:02PM (#44305659)
There seems to be a clear difference between criminals doing shady things and the government doing shady things. It seems like a false equivalency to compare an incident where a random guy does something terrible to one where law enforcement is rapturing people into the night while wearing masks.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by potato3732842 on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @06:18AM (#44308476)
What is law enforcement if not just random guys in uniform?

If the same acts are/were committed (i.e. ditch the sex trafficking example because the .gov doesn't really do that) what makes their misdeeds not equivalent to those of the non-state actor?

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by TheCoelacanth on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:53AM (#44309903)
The difference is that we have entrusted law enforcement with a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence and so we expect them to hold themselves to a higher standard to be worthy of the enormous power they exercise on our behalf.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by pyuser583 on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:53PM (#44305620)
> Even if he thought the detention was illegal, and the police were completely fake -- and let's be real, he didn't think that -- the right way to handle it would be to call the police.

Very, very good point. Not enough people know they can call the police on police.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by TheCoelacanth on Wednesday June 18, 2025 @09:44AM (#44309835)
All he did was link arms with another person. Everyone has the right to link arms with another person.

If law enforcement wants him to stop doing that, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to prove that they actually have the authority to do so.

Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by JKCalhoun on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @07:43PM (#44305176)
I suspect ICE just helped elect Brad Lander.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by apparent on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @08:10PM (#44305367)
Despite his best efforts to use this situation to make a name for himself, and despite the many shortcomings of his opponents, he will likely not be elected.
Re:ICE arrests NYC Comptroller because he asked to see a war... by jgalt212 on Tuesday June 17, 2025 @09:48PM (#44305930)
He's still a 99:1 bet. Get in now, if you feel that way.

https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-win-dem-nomination-for...