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Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by markvdb on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @06:44AM (#43843350)
This is about Finland. They have a rather well-reputed school system that delivers in both areas.
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by cudder on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @07:29AM (#43843701)
At least used to. Last few years Finland's PISA scores as measured by the OECD have plummeted and now they are just a bit above average but nowhere near what they used to be.
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by MrsPeaches on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @07:43AM (#43843831)
Also interesting to note the gender divide in scores in Finland: https://www.statista.com/statistics/986939/student-performan...
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by meowface on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @08:55AM (#43844551)
Wow, that's a huge reading gap.
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by js8 on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @07:39AM (#43843788)
What do you think are the factors that caused this fall?
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by veeti on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @08:05AM (#43844037)
Some common themes in the conversation are neoliberal cost cutting, failed attempts at inclusion and immigration.

* Finland is a gerontocracy and recent governments have made significant cuts to education and the general wellbeing of younger generations.

* Modern schools are increasingly built like open plan offices with dozens of students crammed into "learning spaces" instead of traditional classrooms. This reduces building costs and is also sold as a trendy new innovation in pedagogy.

* Special needs and gifted students are no longer put into special classrooms where they can receive the extra attention and care they need. Instead, they are put in with the other kids to the benefit of no one except the state budget, but at least it feels more "inclusive" to some research professor in their ivory tower.

* The amount of immigration and share of children speaking Finnish as a second language is rising and they are statistically more likely to perform worse (https://yle.fi/a/74-20018233, https://yle.fi/a/74-20016772).

Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by alvah on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @08:15AM (#43844133)
In summary, Finland has brought the policies that have caused much destruction in other Western countries into their own education system, where those policies have also caused destruction, much to everyone's amazement.
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by hjgjhyuhy on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @08:38AM (#43844345)
Yep, this country is no longer that special by European standards. Childcare is still good, but later education and healthcare are very mediocre.

In EU only greeks are less satisfied with the availability of healthcare. Our unemployment rate is pretty similar to Greece and Spain as well. This is what right wing governments want I guess.

Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by akikoo on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @03:49PM (#43849854)
This is a really tragic thing that happened in Finland on April 1st:

https://yle-fi.translate.goog/a/74-20158685?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x...

It's usual in Finland to let babies sleep outside in the strollers (even when it's cold) but in this case no one checked how the child was doing for 3 hours.

In the news he/she was called a baby.

Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by bossyTeacher on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @10:13AM (#43845548)
> * Finland is a gerontocracy and recent governments have made significant cuts to education and the general wellbeing of younger generations.

Politically, isn't this the ultimate fate of most developed nations? I haven't yet see an answer to this. How do you deal financially with this? The obvious answer is for people to be in charge of their own late stage health but is that possible for the average minimum wage worker?

Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by thaanpaa on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @07:55AM (#43843936)
Voting for right-wing politicians repeatedly. You know, tax cuts for the wealthy, education cuts in fear of national debt, and all that jazz.
Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by cudder on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @08:28AM (#43844251)
I always felt like the teaching method in primary school was very much like "no pupil left behind". Teachers really tried their best to keep everyone up to speed on what they taught. If you were a huge troublemaker or just couldn't keep up with the (slowish) pace you would get moved to a special class where you would get more attention (even smaller class sizes) and wouldn't slow the rest of the group down.

As a "smart kid" it sometimes felt like waiting for everyone in class to grok something before moving on was a waste of time and that personally I'd learn very little, but ultimately I think it worked very well to ensure that everyone was on common ground.

At some point it was deemed that the current system wasn't inclusive enough so the special education for the troublemakers was gutted and they were put back into regular classrooms. At the same time, due to lack of funding and lack of teachers, class sizes ballooned from <15 to up to 30 or even 40 students per class in larger cities. I think there's some critical point where that system breaks down and now we're past it. The teacher has too many students to make sure everyone is up to speed, and giving too much individual attention in such a large class wastes everyone else's time.

Immigration has also played a role I think. Finland used to be quite monocultural, but that has changed. There are now more and more students who speak Finnish as their second or third language and as such have trouble keeping up. I don't think the solution is to stuff them into their own schools either as that promotes segregation and makes integrating into the society as an immigrant harder, and I don't pretend to know the perfect solution (if one even exists), but one thing's for sure: the Finnish school system was 100% unprepared for it.

Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by bombcar on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @09:36AM (#43845049)
The solution is almost always more teachers (though at some point you have two teachers per kid and that’s likely to be excessive).

A class of five can handle darn near anything; a class of fifty needs everyone to be as nearly identical as possible.

You can artificially increase the number of “teachers” by combining classes of different grades sometimes. 12 year olds can do great assisting 6 year olds.

Re:Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools by Cloudef on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @08:26AM (#43844223)
At least used to