News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by supermatt on Thursday April 24, 2025 @03:01AM (#43779967)
> they think they had no choice

And they really don't have a choice. if you don't abide by googles terms then they will not permit you to use google mobile services. That means (at the very least):

  - No "play" services (breaks lots of apps and 3rd party peripherals).
  - No app store (over 90% of apps are distributed solely through the play store. even major android players like samsung have tiny libraries in their own stores).
  - No youtube app (and no way to natively play without play services APIs, you NEED to use a crippled iframe embed in a webview!!!)
  - No push notifications (developers usually target the "built-in" option that is basically play services)
  - Missing apps and api-level integration with loads of other stuff, maps, mail, search, calendar, casting, etc
  - No widevine DRM (no hd/4k netflix, etc)
  - Loads of other insidious stuff I cant recall or articulate right now
You cant even use the word "Android" to describe the OS.

Just look at how crippled Amazons fork is. Or how huawei pretty much lost their entire GLOBAL market share because of a US sanction preventing them having a GMS contract.

No matter what anyone says, android IS google. It is so riddled with google specific behaviours you cant use without a license that companies have even ditched android to make their own OS - because they literally aren't allowed to favorably position their own functionality over googles in any way.

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by GoblinSlayer on Thursday April 24, 2025 @04:04AM (#43780285)
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by gaiagraphia on Thursday April 24, 2025 @06:38AM (#43781082)
Big shout out to Google Play Integrity/Safety Net (or whatever it's currently called).

Was the one thing which ended my couple of years without Google, as my banking apps started banning my phones fingerprint for being insecure.

Seems like in a major part of '''Pax Americana''' is needing to use a Google or Apple fingerprint to participate in society. Makes you laugh when people whinge about China.

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by zb3 on Thursday April 24, 2025 @10:32AM (#43783298)
In Europe, banking apps block root but still work on a custom OS (like LineageOS) without contactless payments. I guess this is because many people here buy Chinese phones and they just can't ignore them.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by conradev on Thursday April 24, 2025 @12:28PM (#43784609)
Attesting that a closed source device meets arbitrary closed source standards is a necessary evil.

One real world problem is that some existing systems are built relying on the integrity of the components within, i.e. BART in the bay area relies on the BART cards being honest and secure. If iPhones are to be allowed into the system, they also have to be honest and secure.

The capability is being over-used and abused, and we should design systems to never need it, but some do.

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday April 24, 2025 @02:21PM (#43785827)
> If iPhones are to be allowed into the system, they also have to be honest and secure.

This describes a 1:1, total-trust relationship. There are other types of systems fulfilling the requirements without needing a 1:1, total-trust relationship.

For example, the main requirements here are: The account succeeds at making requests it is allowed to make, and the account fails at making requests it is not allowed to make. Both those requirements can be fulfilled entirely server-side, and should be. Why require the client to be locked down?

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by conradev on Thursday April 24, 2025 @03:14PM (#43786379)
> Why require the client to be locked down?

It is hard and likely expensive to require every single reader in every single city to be networked:

> Because Clipper operates in multiple geographical areas with sporadic or non-existent internet access, the fare collection and verification technology needs to operate without any networking. To accomplish this, the Clipper card memory keeps track of balance on the card, fares paid, and trip history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_card#Technology

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by olyjohn on Saturday April 26, 2025 @03:14AM (#43801561)
So because it's hard and it's expensive for them, we all get locked down phones. Makes perfect sense.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by lenerdenator on Thursday April 24, 2025 @01:27PM (#43785232)
Don't worry, Pax China will have you giving the fingerprint to Xiaomi and Huawei instead.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by ThePowerOfFuet on Thursday April 24, 2025 @04:52PM (#43787337)
Have you tried on GrapheneOS?

Also, what's stopping you from using your bank's website instead... or switching to a bank which sucks less?

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by gaiagraphia on Thursday April 24, 2025 @06:01PM (#43787980)
It just gets all so tiresome. And I don't really have enough money and free time to swap devices/banks when things get banned at random intervals.

Just wanted to be left alone tbh ;/

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by robertlagrant on Thursday April 24, 2025 @06:59AM (#43781209)
> Just look at how crippled Amazons fork is

What has Google done to stop Amazon here?

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by ForHackernews on Thursday April 24, 2025 @08:17AM (#43781804)
...literally all the things listed in the comment you're replying to.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by robertlagrant on Thursday April 24, 2025 @08:20AM (#43781838)
But what stops Amazon from making these things? What's stopping them?
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by mvieira38 on Thursday April 24, 2025 @08:42AM (#43782027)
Almost two decades of Google market dominance with Android, and Google's simultaneous ownership of the entire ecosystem, including the browser, search engine, cloud integration and the internal app store (which is integrated so far up the OS's ass you can't do much without it). You just can't enforce a monopoly like Google does and simply claim "why wouldn't the competitors and consumers just kneecap themselves to leave??"
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by Daedren on Thursday April 24, 2025 @09:40AM (#43782665)
You'd have to get every single app developer to implement an Amazon variant of Google Play Services alongside Google's.

That's not going to happen, it's already a large problem in China.

Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by lern_too_spel on Friday April 25, 2025 @01:43PM (#43796501)
This is a relatively simple technical problem. If Amazon implements compatible APIs, they can trivially rebuild apps to use them.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by tapoxi on Thursday April 24, 2025 @09:25AM (#43782429)
Play Services, and the Play Store. The network effect is so strong that competition becomes impossible. Nobody would buy a phone with a different AI provider because you couldn't use apps like Uber, and Uber wouldn't develop and publish to a different store and re-write their app to avoid Play Services to target a platform without any users.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by jillyboel on Thursday April 24, 2025 @09:19AM (#43782379)
What's stopping you? Reflect on that and you'll have your answer.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by robertlagrant on Thursday April 24, 2025 @11:11AM (#43783773)
What's stopping me is I'm not trying to build a phone. If I were, I wouldn't be blaming Google for not making things easy enough for me.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by jillyboel on Thursday April 24, 2025 @12:03PM (#43784325)
lol and you've clearly never heard of a thought experiment
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by robertlagrant on Friday April 25, 2025 @05:33AM (#43791799)
Try re-reading the second sentence.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by jillyboel on Friday April 25, 2025 @10:10AM (#43793755)
Try engaging your brain for like 2 seconds
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by olyjohn on Saturday April 26, 2025 @03:17AM (#43801575)
Holy fuck dude. Try rereading the comments in the thread that already answered your questions.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by bolognafairy on Thursday April 24, 2025 @08:40AM (#43782002)
You’re not being clever like you think you are. “They could simply build something else” is … something that truly everybody knows. That’s not the point.
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by robertlagrant on Thursday April 24, 2025 @11:11AM (#43783779)
What is the point?
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by josefx on Thursday April 24, 2025 @01:07PM (#43785015)
Why didn't Linux programmers just fork Windows or iOS?
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by mvieira38 on Thursday April 24, 2025 @08:37AM (#43781976)
The Play services thing is a major deal for banking apps and such. If anyone has tried dealing with third-party ROMs like LineageOS and GrapheneOS, they would know how much Google tries its best to screw you if you leave their gross leech of an ecosystem
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by ThePowerOfFuet on Thursday April 24, 2025 @04:54PM (#43787359)
I have a Pixel with GrapheneOS and no Google anything installed, and bunq, N26, and SG apps all work flawlessly (but with no push notifications because no Google services, and I'm fine with that).
Re:Google blocked Motorola use of Perplexity AI, witness says by LopovJack on Saturday April 26, 2025 @07:42AM (#43802732)
From what source do you install those apps?