You could also plop them in front of toys or puzzles or hell even a movie on tv. All better than algorithm driven apps.

Yes, yes, yes! There is no way my 5 year old daughter gets access to apps like YouTube. Occassionally, I let her use a drawing app or we watch some photos or music videos together, but that's about it regarding mobile devices. She may watch kids shows/movies on DVD while I'm preparing dinner.

She spends her time with toys, puzzles, drawing, painting, crafting, Legos, books, playing outside, playing with friends, playing with her little brother, etc. She can easily do Origamis for one hour. I hope I can sustain this as long as possible. I know it will get harder and harder once she goes to school.

Yes, thank you. It feels like whenever this topic is brought up everyone argues between some false dichotomy of letting the kid binge on algorithmic slop or personally engaging with them in some wholesome activity.

Meanwhile a couple generations of us grew up with two working parents who were happy to just throw us in front of the TV or our lego sets when they needed a break. And that seemed to work fine?

Our daughter is only 2, but she's still absolutely thrilled whenever we let her zone out to some Disney movie on the TV, and has yet to even hold a tablet (that we know of, at least). I know things will proabbly change for us as she gets older, so I try to withold too much judgement from the parents I see happily plopping a tablet with YouTube in front of their kid. But for now, it's just hard for me to even imagine doing that.

I'm sure many would ask "whats the difference between a movie on TV amd YouTube on a tablet?" Well, tons, just from my personal experience. But her pediatrician, early child development professional we work with, and research I've read, all seem to indicate there's a pretty big difference.

A movie requires following a plot line for a sustained amount of time (like 1.25 hours). YouTube shorts are like 30 second dopamine hits that make a movie seem like a chore. Think about that. What we used to do for fun is considered by some to be exhausting now.

I was really shocked last week when I met two women in their early 20s in a bar. Someone mentioned The Lord of the Rings. I said I'd read it.

They were shocked! They were asking about the film.

And I was probably more shocked when they said they don't read books because they don't have the patience. One said she once read a whole book and it was really good, but hasn't don't so since.

Agreed. Doing this from the start yields great results.

Imagine going the other way round is detox, you need to pushback hard since they will fight you on everything.

I think it's worth it even in that case. Though obviously if you never offer that option from the start, you're golden. Toys, puzzles, long form entertainment, etc.

Yes. I don't know at what age it's no longer feasible to restrict apps, but my young kids will never get access to youtube, tiktok, twitch until at least middle school if not high school. Until then, it's slower moving kids shows on Netflix or downloaded high quality content from youtube. And yes, even those are the last resort for when it's raining outside, we've already cycled through all the indoor playgrounds, no one is available for play dates, the toys and puzzles and books have been all cycled through, and both parents are unable to provide supervised play.

Both parents working make child rearing extremely hard but there are some obvious taboos around this discussion.

You are right but in my experience sticking with clasic entertainment solutions works out better.

And I think people are responding to your dilemma with the very sensible solution of just not having kids. Unless you have a very flexible setup somehow, or lots of cash (or both), yeah, child rearing is nightmare fuel.

The worst is both parents working high pressure jobs that bleed into hours outside of "9-5 on weekdays" and even when not working, the stress is omnipresent. I haven't met a single person who is superhuman enough to work one of these jobs and be an involved parent while not allowing their own mental/physical health to deteriorate. One of us had to become a full-time parent and the size of the paycheck determined who it was. Taboos be damned, it felt like life and death at that point.

This is an area where Americans’ lack of a functioning government is so incredibly glaring and obviously harmful, that I’m amazed nobody seems to mention it. Have regulations become so stigmatized that sensible, widely supported steps to protect the minds of our youth (arguably every bit as important as ensuring their food is not literal poison) isn’t even worth debating? I think this is another symptom of how totalitarian capitalism has been allowed to erode the common sense of society well past the point it can reasonably function.

I have to disagree on this. I was not an "easy child", and there were periods where both my parents worked, but they never budged and pacified me. I never had a videogame system and didn't have a cell phone until I got a job and earned the money. TV was almost never permitted; generally when someone was sick or family movie night a few times per year. If they had conceded when my siblings and I were young, if they had established they were weak and could effectively be bullied into giving us our way, that really would have been poor parenting. It's how one winds up with spoiled brats. And I remember vividly during the various tantrums of various children, my mother in particular would tell us, "I refuse to raise a brat."

I know I probably sound incredibly boomer rn, but I see the effects of this in my generation (zoomers) and much, much more sharply with kids. I can't say it's "easier", but from my limited experience handling kids, it's trading a short-term hassle for huge long-term benefit.