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Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by paxys on Monday April 14, 2025 @03:40PM (#43685386)
I don't understand the FTC's strategy here. Their entire case hinges on the fact that the judge will accept that Instagram, WhatsApp, Snapchat and MeWe (?) are direct competitors of Facebook in the "personal social networking" space while TikTok, YouTube, X, iMessage and all the rest aren't. Unsurprisingly that is what Meta's legal team is spending all of its efforts debating. I really can't see the judge allowing such a cherry-picked definition of what Facebook's market is.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by scialex on Monday April 14, 2025 @04:20PM (#43685882)
I mean it's not much more unreasonable then the argument that iphones and android phones don't compete but courts bought that.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by granzymes on Monday April 14, 2025 @06:20PM (#43686921)
A court didn’t buy that: the district court and 9th Circuit both held that iOS and Android compete in the Epic v. Apple case.

A jury however found that the relevant market in the Epic v. Google case was just Android. Google is understandably appealing that to the 9th Circuit.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by whatshisface on Monday April 14, 2025 @04:31PM (#43685979)
The definition of a trust isn't a business with no competitors. In fact, a business with no competitors is legal. Antitrust law limits "anti-competitive actions," which are possible even for commodity producers in an efficient market.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Monday April 14, 2025 @07:03PM (#43687242)
Exactly! So what is anti competitive here?
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by stackskipton on Monday April 14, 2025 @07:43PM (#43687485)
Facebook knew that Instagram was up and coming and instead of competing, it just bought it.

You can read more about initial complaint and following the trial here: https://www.bigtechontrial.com/p/zuckerberg-on-the-stand-the...

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by DecentShoes on Monday April 14, 2025 @11:19PM (#43688698)
Isn't this the purpose of most acquisitions?
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by callc on Monday April 14, 2025 @11:43PM (#43688790)
If the purpose of an acquisition is to quash competition that is bad. Monopolies are bad.

Another purpose of acquisitions is to acquire a new capability that you could not do in house that you do not already compete on.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by dmix on Monday April 14, 2025 @11:51PM (#43688825)
Instagram was and still is in a highly competitive market. Previously it was Snapchat at the time and now it's Tiktok. Not to mention YouTube shorts, Reddit, Twitter, and every other service focused on video and pictures.

I don't think any social media consumer is lacking choice.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by callc on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @12:40AM (#43689038)
Regardless of how much “choice” there is in a market, FB made an anti-competitive play. Now we all have n-1 choices.

The question of whether society should allow companies to perform anti-competitive actions should not be “will we be left with enough choices?”, but should be “is this an anti-competitive action?”

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by reaperducer on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @09:46AM (#43692631)
Isn't this the purpose of most acquisitions?

No, it's not. It is not normal or usual. Not even in the tech industry.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by blululu on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @10:12AM (#43692984)
A true accounting of board level corporate motivations is not available. The standard line is typically something like “we are acquiring our smaller rival to more effectively compete with our larger rival”. I.e “we are acquiring a small desktop publishing start up to compete with the largest cloud computing provider”. Or in this case: “we are acquiring a small photo sharing company to compete against Google/Youtube”.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @12:41PM (#43695321)
Are we talking past each other? How is that anti competitive? This is literally the opposite: they embraced and validated their competitor by making them a huge offer, showing that it pays off to compete
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @12:49PM (#43695422)
And once they bought them, then Instagram wasn't a competitor any more. That's how it's anti-competitive.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Thursday April 17, 2025 @01:24AM (#43713378)
I disagree that it is anti competitive, it is not "killing" competition. Killing competition is setting prices that makes the competition go bankrupt, it's assassinating people, it's pushing for changes that prevent the competition from working in the same environment, etc. here nothing prevented instagram from saying no and getting bigger.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by karaterobot on Monday April 14, 2025 @07:30PM (#43687418)
The government has alleged that Meta's acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram was done to reduce competition. Nothing has been established as anti-competitive or not yet, that's why it's in court. Evidence from both sides will be presented. I'm not sure how else to answer that question.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by tyre on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @01:57AM (#43689414)
Zuckerberg in writing said that instagram was purchased to prevent them from competing.

Many things have been established.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by lazide on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @02:32AM (#43689626)
It’s perfectly fine to do anti-competitive actions. They’re fundamental to most businesses survival, actually.

It’s not fine to do them to create, expand, protect, attempt to create, etc. monopolies.

So essentially, you can be anti-competitive only to the point where you’ve been too successful at it, then it’s bad.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by n4r9 on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @04:08AM (#43690193)
Anti-competitive behaviours such as price-fixing and over-broad no-compete clauses can be problematic even without a monopoly.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by lazide on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @04:34AM (#43690364)
Fair point, though they typically only become problematic (aka are acted on/legislated against) when they significantly distort the market to a degree people start really complaining about it.

Usually due to either a monopsony/cartel/monopoly which controls most of the market doing it successfully.

If the companies in the lower 5% of a market price fix or the like, no one usually cares. Even 20%, usually.

The Sherman antitrust act speaks about ‘restraints of trade’ because it has to actually restrain trade, which requires a significant degree of control - which a successful/actual monopoly, monopsony, or cartel can do.

Technically, even attempting to do it is illegal, but going after every company that tries has a bit of the same feel as locking up every single toddler because they took a swing at someone or threatened them with their cute little stubby kid scissors.

It’s a waste of resources, not in anyone’s interest, stops behavior most people would consider necessary/healthy to some degree, causes much worse problems than it solves, etc.

On the other hand, locking up a successful serial killer is just good public policy.

The difference between the two is more a matter of the success and effectiveness of their tactics, not really intent.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by n4r9 on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @06:14AM (#43690937)
Generally agree. There are some subtle edge cases like price dumping, but even that's still ultimately an attempt to gain market dominance.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Thursday April 17, 2025 @01:25AM (#43713382)
Its not the same as forcing them to shut down or say yes. They wanted one less competitor yes, as every company does, but they didn't prevent the company from growing and existing.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by ezfe on Monday April 14, 2025 @11:01PM (#43688611)
Buying a rising product to make sure you control it instead of needing to compete with it is not legal when you're the size of Facebook.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @12:43PM (#43695344)
Isnt this inviting to competition? You can make a big exit by competing and getting acquired
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by ezfe on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @02:50PM (#43696936)
Well - it invites people creating big promises and then selling, which doesn't help the consumer.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Thursday April 17, 2025 @01:26AM (#43713383)
IMO the consumer wins if there's a single social network
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by instagib on Monday April 14, 2025 @11:26PM (#43688729)
Further advancements in litigation will likely reveal additional information.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by dmix on Monday April 14, 2025 @11:50PM (#43688821)
Usually you do that before the trial. Using that as the tactic is shady. Although this has always had the vibe of being about clamping down on big tech power not protecting upstarts. So the goals might be broader. A lever to pull through threats of more of this.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by gruez on Monday April 14, 2025 @05:49PM (#43686698)
That's basically every antitrust case. Is Window's market IBM-compatible PCs/laptops, or does it include Macs and chromebooks as well? What about other computing devices like tablets/phones, given that many households (especially in poorer countries) don't even have PCs/laptops?
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by timewizard on Tuesday April 15, 2025 @12:04AM (#43688875)
Thankfully there are multiple ways to probe this question:

"Did Microsoft sell Windows at a loss?"

Now you don't have to define the market. Microsoft did it for you.

Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by the_clarence on Monday April 14, 2025 @07:02PM (#43687240)
Also what if they own multiple apps in the space? I don't get the anti competitiveness here. People can still create new apps and even say no to an acquisition once they become successful.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by hooloovoo_zoo on Monday April 14, 2025 @09:06PM (#43688004)
It's a good strategy because that's the obvious distinction and there's an easy litmus test (which apps do people use their real names on). Don't be ridiculous with iMessage.
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by paxys on Monday April 14, 2025 @09:12PM (#43688048)
What's the "obvious distinction" and "easy litmus test" that WhatsApp directly competes with Facebook while iMessage is not in the same space? What about Instagram and TikTok?
Re:Meta antitrust trial kicks off in federal court by hooloovoo_zoo on Monday April 14, 2025 @09:29PM (#43688127)
iMessage is not a business; it's just a messaging feature. There are no ads or 3rd party content or anything. The easy litmus test is the one I just gave; users generally don't use their real names on tiktok.