It's not normal, Trump / MAGA is a paradigm shift driven by Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, and the Heritage Foundation. They are running the playbook that was prototyped in Hungary. This is going to take multiple generations to fix and I expect it to get worse before it gets better. I almost hope for a recession so that people who voted for tfg get a clue about how bad they have been lied to. If you want to know their justification, Fox News tows the line, not as bad as the new right media (which is really why they have been so successful)

> not as bad as the new right media (which is really why they have been so successful)

What is the "new right media"?

Social media, podcasts, "independent" journalism (randos cosplaying as experts)

It's really the "new media" which the right has leveraged for political aims far more effectively, the conspiracy theories and mis/disinformation flows up towards OAN, Fox News, and to the politicians

OAN, Real America News at least. Maybe Breitbart, though that's old enough to be in high school now.

When I grew in Europe America was just the best. America this, America that. American movies, American TV.

Today... I wouldnt even call it a boycot, when McDonalds is sitting there empty. Its more like a emperor without clothes situation. People are realizing is was all just bogus.

I even feel dirty these days visiting this site.

They vote for him because he is openly corrupt. They just think they will be beneficiaries of some of the corruption.

A slightly more-charitable option: The supporter is willing to take a small virtuous socioeconomic hit as long as Trump/Republicans ensure that "those people" remain an underclass beneath the supporter, because that's how they think the world has to work.

Structurally similar to how another person might pay more taxes if it meant free school lunches for poor kids or whatever.

And then they get summarily purged by DOGE. Reddit LeopardsAteMyFace style.

It's a very basic conman trick, to make the victim think they're in on the scam, as opposed to being its target.

To me it was clear there's no line after the Ukraine extortion scandal. When you extort your ally in war to make up lies about your political opponent and your supporters take your side, there's clearly no limits. I gave up arguing with MAGAs after that, it's pointless.

Though the new Signal leak is quite funny, there must be a ton of people who were so angry for Hillary's emails their face matched their hat color, but now are attacking the reporter for just reporting that he was sent classified information.

We were selling arms to Iran to fund the contras in Niaragua, and we (they, from where I sit) negotiated the hostages held by Iran to be held for an extra 100 days or so in order to make Jimmy Carter look bad. Also maybe flubbed the rescue mission to undermine him. We've not ever been too keen on lines.

> For those that support Trump, where is the line? Is this not outright corruption you'd usually see in 3rd world countries?

I mean, yes it is and they don't care, is about the size of it. Like, this is not exactly Trump's first blatantly corrupt thing.

Endless coverage and hyping of sometimes nebulous sometimes real scandals in their media and now it's all justified "Everyone does it." (I still don't understand the concrete accusations of "Benghazi!")

This is how the Russians and Hungarians got their governments to where they are as well

There was always corruption like Clinton pardoning Marc Rich or Biden pardoning his son (after claiming he wouldn't) but Trump is bringing it to a new level. First Blagojevich and now this guy. Really hard to justify these pardons.

I don't think Hunter Biden pardon openly stated that the US government is okay with fraud in public companies and the SEC has no power to prevent fraud, but I don't exactly read much news nowadays.

This pardon is much much worse, even worse than the Secretary of Defense using Signal to communicate military operations.

Totally agree. Although Marc Rich was pretty bad too.

Not from the US, but Biden gets a pass for his son. Trump would make Ramsay Bolton look like Mother Teresa if he had power over a Biden.