If you get a chance try out the NEOX. It's basically a GriGri with smoother rope feed, so you almost never have to defeat the cam when lead belaying with a proper dynamic technique. They've been polarizing to some people but it really feels like a "fixed GriGri" to me. You still need to mind the brake side, but at least feeding doesn't have an intrinsic design flaw where you have to temporarily disable the safety device.

The GriGri does not have an autobrake. Petzl is very intentional in saying it is an “assisted braking device”, not auto braking. If there is any tension at all on the rope (even just lightly being held), then the GriGri will likely brake, but if the rope isn’t being held at all then there is no guarantee it will brake.

See this video, around the 10 minute mark where there’s several examples of the GriGri not locking at all: https://youtu.be/We-nxljgnw4?t=605

This is perhaps an even greater issue than what you pointed out because people misunderstand the GriGri a lot, and assume it will always catch them even if you aren’t holding the rope. It won’t.

To be fair, I suspect the difference between “auto brake” and “assisted braking device” is mostly legal liability. In practical use I would understand both terms to mean the same thing. I think very few people believe a grigri will _always_ catch them. They just (accurately!) believe that in most circumstances it will. The 5% where it won’t catch you is of course deadly.

It is not. There are situations where it won't break and someone dies.

It is not just "legal liability" which is Musk speak for "won't always work but I want you to pay as if it did".

The military version is auto-brake for rappelling and you can go fully hands free per petzl but you have to use specific rope. My guess is since they cant control the rope in civilian version they can’t vouch for it working in 100% of cases

Thanks for the correction.

It’s one of those distinctions which only actually matters in a small and somewhat rare, but very important, edge case. Usually more determined by rope diameter and conditions than anything else.

In contexts where a fuckup is likely to result in death or permanent disability it might be prudent to play the consequences instead of the odds. Marginally related: I was always shocked by the diversity of crispy bullshit other climbers were willing to rap off of. I kept new webbing and rap rings in my daypack at all times just in case.

Sure, it should be noted that applying that rule fully consistently would mean never doing recreational climbing at all eh? After all, it is fundamentally risky.

Maybe still SAR, of course.

I always carried a belay knife and some extra webbing, and used it more than once. A couple times I didn’t need the knife.

I mean I hear what you're saying but at the same time avoidable bullshit like scrambling off rope 50'+ off the deck, rapping off of some random stripper's thong that got caught in a shrub, or letting your intrusive thoughts win while belaying are all dirt common in the community. Its one thing to get caught out while engaging in dangerous hobbies, it's something else entirely to die doing something that's obviously stupid. I absolutely cannot even when someone goes for a 10th of a mile slide off of one of the flatirons in Tevas and the locals have the gall to call it a tragedy.

I have the exact same grigri shown in the video, and somehow it never fails to lock when I'm quickly trying to feed slack to a leader and don't put a bit of pressure on the left side. Even when I've added slack to the brake strand.

I wonder if it has something to do with the angle, as it's pretty uncommon to have the climbing strand going straight up from the belayer.

Important point. It's not actually all that trivial to give a good and safe lead belay with a grigri. I see folks wrap their thumb over the Grigri cam to pay slack all the time. It is extremely dangerous when combined with not paying much attention because a surprise fall will cause the belayer to seize their grip on the device and lock it open. Heart breaking example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBGkKqLhM8Y

All that said, I still prefer to be belayed with a grigri.

> when lead belaying, you need to pay out rope, which means disengaging the auto brake. If you do this buy holding the handle

What the hell are they teaching kids these days. I've NEVER needed to hold the handle on a grigri unless I'm trying to lower something. The correct technique is hold the cam down with your thumb leaving three to four fingers in contact with the rope at all time. The left hand is used to pull rope through the girgri to give rope to the climber, the climber already has to pull up a bunch of rope through a maze of carabiners and don't need the extra work of trying to pull it through a grigri.

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belaying-with-the-GRIGRI