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Re:A Letter to the American People by ajmurmann on Saturday March 01, 2025 @06:33PM (#43225241)
It's most startling to me that there seems to be this implicit assumption that people working in the bureaucracy are the ones making the rules. The rules are being requested by Congress. One can like it dislike the rules but if we want fewer of them it's Congress who most remove them. It also should be possible for any reasonable person to see that if we ask the government to do something we should want to do it well. The worst outcome is creating lots of rules and regulations that then get badly implemented and I need to wait years for my permit, passport renewal, tax return etc or our national parks turn into fire hazards and similar.
Re:A Letter to the American People by scarab92 on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:02PM (#43225534)
> there seems to be this implicit assumption that people working in the bureaucracy are the ones making the rules

Most regulations come about due to agency rulemaking under vague or broad statutes, so this implicit assumption is likely generally true.

Given that power, it doesn't surprise me that Republicans would be uncomfortable with organisations like 18F that had zero ideological diversity, in much the same way that I would expect Democrats to be uncomfortable inheriting an agency composed entirely of MAGA types.

Regardless of their technical prowess, as a government organisation, they should have taken more care to avoid becoming completely partisan, and shouldn't be surprised at this outcome.

Re:A Letter to the American People by dragonwriter on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:14PM (#43225653)
> it doesn't surprise me that Republicans would be uncomfortable with organisations like 18F that had zero ideological diversity

Ideological diversity within the federal bureaucracy is exactly what the war against the permanent civil service is directed against, in favor of partisan patronage and Führerprinzip.

Re:A Letter to the American People by scarab92 on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:45PM (#43225869)
Are you assuming that the current makeup of the civil service is ideologically diverse? It isn't. There were no conservatives at 18F.
Re:A Letter to the American People by defrost on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:53PM (#43225919)
That's one of side effects of hiring on merit rather than voting patterns

The best of the best that actually want to take part in making effective change for the better within goverment services will tend to have a progressive outlook.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18F

Re:A Letter to the American People by invig on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:10AM (#43228116)
You're not seriously making the case that the government was hiring strictly based on merit are you?
Re:A Letter to the American People by defrost on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:27AM (#43228196)
I'm more interested in the original claim that there were no (zero, nada, < epsilon) conservatives at 18F.

Particularly if the tent is broadened to include traditional pre-Trumpian conservatives.

Re:A Letter to the American People by invig on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:43AM (#43228283)
What percentage should there be?
Re:A Letter to the American People by defrost on Sunday March 02, 2025 @06:25AM (#43229343)
Zero, as claimed, seems unlikely.

"Should" seems prescriptive.

Within a standard deviation of the mean general distribution for the US Federal service would be probable by the Central Limit Theorem.

Re:A Letter to the American People by invig on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @04:45PM (#43336823)
Why bound it to the US Federal service?
Re:A Letter to the American People by yusaythat on Sunday March 02, 2025 @03:36PM (#43234776)
I love how it's "We KNOW diversity makes us stronger" kinda stuff right up till it's all people you agree with then we don't need diversity any more and it's all merit.

I've known this was true forever but it's interesting seeing it said out loud now.

Re:A Letter to the American People by hypothesis on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:53PM (#43225916)
Is DOGE ideologically diverse? From recent reporting it also looks like a bunch of white men primarily.
Re:A Letter to the American People by invig on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:12AM (#43228120)
White men can't be ideologically diverse?
Re:A Letter to the American People by defrost on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:25AM (#43228187)
> W̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ m̶e̶n̶ DOGE can't be ideologically diverse?

In theory DOGE could be diverse. In practice, at this specific time there's no real indication they're age diverse, gender diverse, or even messiah diverse.

Re:A Letter to the American People by invig on Sunday March 02, 2025 @06:05AM (#43229264)
You don't really mean "ideologically" there do you?
Re:A Letter to the American People by defrost on Sunday March 02, 2025 @06:25AM (#43229342)
By "there" do you mean

> W̶h̶i̶t̶e̶ m̶e̶n̶ DOGE can't be ideologically diverse?

where I "quoted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228120 which "quoted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225916 by performing s/ DOGE / White men / and I returned by performing s/ White men / DOGE / ?

You would first have to ask scarab92, dragonwriter, and hypothesis if they ' really mean "ideologically" ' and then address the question of why did you substitute DOGE with White men .. which is all getting a tad meta for me.

As for that part of "there" ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43228187 ) which is all me .. I very much meant that the DOGE operatives do not appear to suffer from any form of diversity by any metric.

Perhaps they differ by meme coin preference?

Re:A Letter to the American People by invig on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @04:43PM (#43336811)
I get what you're trying to say, but 'ideologically diverse' doesn’t really work that way—it’s about ideas, not how things look on the surface.
Re:A Letter to the American People by Ancapistani on Saturday March 01, 2025 @08:29PM (#43226146)
This is exactly what I was saying in another thread, but wasn’t able to put so clearly.
Re:A Letter to the American People by Volundr on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:10PM (#43226445)
> There were no conservatives at 18F.

And we know this how?

Re:A Letter to the American People by dragonwriter on Saturday March 01, 2025 @10:21PM (#43226893)
> Are you assuming that the current makeup of the civil service is ideologically diverse?

On the whole. Yes. Given the lengths of careers, the structure of the civil service system (both the formal structure and the way it has, until last month, been applied in practice), and the different and (in some areas more than others regional and occupational-area biases in who is attracted to it, that would be hard to avoid.

> There were no conservatives at 18F.

Even if that were true, the mass firings of federal civil servants haven't been limited to 18F.

Re:A Letter to the American People by djur on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:09PM (#43225608)
How do you legislate "ideological neutrality" into an agency? There's nothing left-wing about 18F's mission.

If Republicans are unhappy about how agencies use rulemaking power, they have had many opportunities over the past few decades to pass bills more clearly defining the powers of those agencies.