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Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @03:44PM (#43143028)
Who are the “right people” who would’ve flagged and stopped $29 million in usaid funds going to destabilized the government in Bangladesh, or DEI projects in Serbia?

The Musk standing with a chainsaw at CPAC this weekend is the same guy who camped out in Pennsylvania the last week of the election as Trump’s closer. People voted for this because the supposed adults in the room didn’t do their jobs.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by spiderfarmer on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:02PM (#43143173)
It would of course be better if you stuck to known facts instead of rumors from anonymous people on X. But even if misuse of USAID money comes to light, which I’m sure there is, wouldn’t it be better to understand al the facts, and change course if need be?

The tactic right now seems to be to cause as much chaos as possible, to find and point to one silver lining and then to move on as quickly as possible. Ignoring all the irreparable harm caused along the way.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:36PM (#43143502)
There will never be another opportunity to fix this stuff in my lifetime. It’s the sort of thing we read about in history books in the 1990s about what the CIA/State Department did decades before, and we assumed they weren’t still doing the same things. The Bangladesh thing happens to be what irks me for obvious reasons. But the civil service is full of ideologues who push various unpopular policies (e.g. racial preferences, foreign intervention, increased immigration) regardless of who wins the election. It was a miracle that Musk got into the position he’s in now and he needs to gut these agencies now because they’re won’t be another chance.

Social security and Medicare payments will continue to be made. That’s the essential stuff. Everything else can tolerate some disruption.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by jajko on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:25PM (#43143907)
Maybe they will fix some of the stuff. Hard disagree here, chaos doesn't mean change for the better but there is at least some chance.

Did you ever consider what you and everybody else will lose by allowing all this to happen in such ways? One random example from the sea of examples - US within a month lost all the international respect it ever built after WWI lets say. I mean all of it, and its not coming back anytime soon.

Now its a fat bully who kicks kids randomly including former friends, chokes them from all lunch money and some more. Literally China looks like our new best buddy from European perspective. Once we move to their ways of working and their financial flows, petrodollar will never ever be the same power projection it once was. And you know what China has to do to achieve all this soft power win? Absolutely nothing, just sit back and enjoy the view of an orange man have his mental fits and petty vengeful fights on all sides (apart from russia obviously, they were always great friends to US and its democracy).

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by defen on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:55PM (#43144147)
> One random example from the sea of examples - US within a month lost all the international respect it ever built after WWI lets say. I mean all of it, and its not coming back anytime soon.

In 2003 the USA invaded Iraq because the "intelligence community" made up claims about the existence of weapons of mass destruction, resulting in the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqi civilians and 4,700 coalition troops; and the rise of ISIS. You think Trump's actions in the past month are worse than that?

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by daveguy on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:53PM (#43145043)
To our allies, yes and without a doubt. Maybe if we had invaded an ally based on questionable intelligence. But now, the US is siding with dictators and oligarchs and against Canada, Mexico, EU, England, Japan, South Korea. If you don't see that as worse or didn't know it was happening, you should re-evaluate your news sources. The oligarchs aren't your buddies and you're not going to be one.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by defen on Saturday February 22, 2025 @08:09PM (#43145149)
I just fundamentally disagree with you, in a way that can't be resolved via Internet arguing. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I can only say that we have such different conceptions of the world that our viewpoints are probably mutually unintelligible. Canada, England, and Mexico are not real countries. Who cares what they think? The EU is in terminal decline. I'm not aware of how we're siding with "dictators and oligarchs" against Japan and South Korea. I believe we're in the midst of a great realignment and some people just haven't gotten the message yet.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @08:36PM (#43145345)
Are you completely nuts? The Iraq War resulted in millions of excess deaths: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians

The deep state operatives that were responsible for the Iraq War are just as bad as any dictator.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by spiderfarmer on Saturday February 22, 2025 @11:59PM (#43146703)
If your friend did a bad thing to someone, you tell him. If a friend did a bad thing to a mutual friend, you cut him off.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by skissane on Sunday February 23, 2025 @04:25AM (#43148015)
> To our allies, yes and without a doubt.

I don’t think most people in Australia are really paying that much attention to what is happening in the US. And the fact remains that Australia needs the US and doesn’t really have any other real option. Our immediate neighbours are either even weaker than we are (New Zealand) or too culturally different to make a military alliance a viable option (Indonesia). The average Australian isn’t willing to incur the risk or cost of “going it alone” on national security. The UK is too far away to help us. The US is far away too, but the US retains an ability to project power globally which the UK has largely lost.

And if the polls are right, we are going to elect Dutton as our next PM, who even though he occasionally criticises Trump, on the whole is closer to Trump than our current government is.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by spiderfarmer on Saturday February 22, 2025 @11:56PM (#43146690)
As an ally, absolutely.

Even my teenage kids hate the US now because of how Trump talks about Nato and that’s just because of how they talk in their War Thunder teams. Cozying up to Russia will do that for you. And they already didn’t respect the US because of how the government treats its own citizens.

It’s very hard to gain respect. It’s very easily lost.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:49PM (#43144097)
> Did you ever consider what you and everybody else will lose by allowing all this to happen in such ways? One random example from the sea of examples - US within a month lost all the international respect it ever built after WWI lets say.

What international respect? People in my corner of the world are quite happy about Trump revealing the U.S. meddling in south Asian affairs. Liberal internationalism is deeply unpopular outside Western Europe, because it generally invokes America meddling in the internal affairs of Asian and middle eastern countries.

Also, Americans clearly don’t care about “international respect”—in the sense you’re talking about it. Your example is the archetype of the problem: you have government filled with liberal internationalists who have particular values that don’t reflect the electorate. Most democrats don’t care about American hegemony—they just like Obamacare. And since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the disastrous Iraq War, most Republican voters want to turn inward and close the border.

But somehow the internationalists have burrowed into the federal government and you can’t get rid of them. Similarly, support for increasing immigration has never been over 34% but somehow immigration keeps increasing. Affirmative action keeps being resurrected and renamed. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to get these people out of the government.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by jajko on Sunday February 23, 2025 @07:13AM (#43148737)
US is meddling everywhere it can, no continent was ever spared, same goes for Russia or China (albeit this is very soft so far). Anybody surprised by this has some gigantic gaps in history lessons and just ignores whats happening in the world, those organisations were out in plain sight for decades.

What respect? All its relevant allies - whole Europe, Canada. Half a billion of wealthy democracy aligned folks in Europe and Canada. Remove them and most of the remaining world doesnt share at all core values with what we call western democracies. Those wont ever be long term allies.

China seems very happy with his moves, so is India with current government. And thats about it for important players. I did expect him to be friendly towards russia but speed and intensity of his ass kissing and ignoring basic facts is quite something. But somebody ignoring his own constitution from Day 1 can't be expected to deliver much.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by aSanchezStern on Saturday February 22, 2025 @03:56PM (#43143140)
Actually exit polls say that most people who voted for Trump did so because they thought he would lower grocery prices, not because they thought he would make the government more efficient. So far grocery prices have risen significantly under his administration. As far as I know there is no evidence that there was a program to destabilize bangladesh that doge cut, that appears to be another case of doge not really understanding what it was cutting. But if you have a credible reference on that which isn't just saying "Elon said so", I'd love to see it.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by spiderfarmer on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:06PM (#43143209)
I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump started mailing checks to people just before the midterms. I remember a documentary before election day where many gladly people remembered receiving stimulus checks just because Trump demanded they were sent in his name. They’ll forget about the wounds he’ll cause, as long as they receive a bandaid with his face on it.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by bamboozled on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:47PM (#43143598)
They already have spoke about passing on the savings by sending out $5000 cheques. A small price to pay for gutting your healthcare benefits and social security :)
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by actionfromafar on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:52PM (#43143645)
Like bribing children with candy.

Well, a quarter of the population can barely read, so makes sense.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States )

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:40PM (#43143538)
Coalitions are built by uniting various factions and their interests. Cutting the administrative state is #9 on Trump’s platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform. Just because it wasn’t the top reason doesn’t mean it wasn’t part of the platform that people voted for.

For example, I don’t personally care for RFK. I’m the opposite of an anti-vaxxer, I think the government should vaccinate you in your sleep. But he was part of the pitch and MAHA was part of the coalition and I voted for the platform and was happy to see him confirmed. That’s how political coalitions work.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by pcwalton on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:18PM (#43143842)
So wait, I'm supposed to wish success for everything, say, Gavin Newsom does because I voted for him? Is that how it works?
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:54PM (#43144134)
If Newsom explicitly runs on X, Y, and Z, and you vote for him for X and Y, I think it’s fair to say that you’re at least acquiescing to Z in return for forming a majority coalition.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by littlestymaar on Sunday February 23, 2025 @02:36PM (#43152402)
Why? That's a very weird line of reasoning!

Then who are you supposed to vote for if you want X and Y but are against Z (but think X or Y is more important than Z)?

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by archagon on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:39PM (#43143526)
Here's what the "adults" in Congress are doing now:

"The newly released House GOP resolution proposes a $4 trillion debt ceiling increase while allocating $4.5 trillion in new deficits for the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee."

Even if DOGE finds $29 billion in waste, it would essentially be a rounding error compared to those numbers.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:46PM (#43143592)
I’d rather have the money going back to taxpayers than being used to fund these programs.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by archagon on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:59PM (#43143698)
By what calculus is that money "going back" to taxpayers? It looks like we're going even further into debt to issue massive tax cuts to corporations along with some scraps to throw at the base. Most of those millions will be skimmed by the elites while we the people get a far less functional federal government in exchange.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:25PM (#43144859)
Getting this stuff out of government will make it more functional.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by Hikikomori on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:47PM (#43145007)
Yes, let the old people die in the streets.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @08:39PM (#43145363)
Good thing Musk is going after DEI and foreign election interference funds and not Social Security.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by Hikikomori on Saturday February 22, 2025 @09:13PM (#43145653)
You think medicare is safe?
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @09:18PM (#43145695)
Trump became the GOP nominee in 2016 by breaking from party orthodoxy in opposing entitlement reform. Then he was president for four years and didn’t touch medicare or social security. So yes, I’m going to trust that over the same people who told me in 2016 that there would be Muslim internment camps.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by Hikikomori on Monday February 24, 2025 @04:56AM (#43157693)
Trump did nothing but increase taxes on the poor and decreased them for the rich in his first term because he had no plan. Now the plan is project 2025, which he pretended to not be aware of or have anything to do with, so not sure why you would trust anything he says.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by archagon on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:49PM (#43145020)
Russell Vought, Project 2025 architect and now head of OMB: “We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected… When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work, because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want their funding to be shut down… We want to put them in trauma.”

This is almost the definition of a dysfunctional workplace. The best you can hope for with this kind of organization is that it barely keeps limping along. (Of course, we already know that Republicans want to “drown [the federal government] in a bathtub,” so I imagine the trauma will only get worse.)

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by sharder on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:07PM (#43143771)
You need me to venmo you $20?
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by vharuck on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:47PM (#43143599)
>Who are the “right people” who would’ve flagged and stopped $29 million in usaid funds going to destabilized the government in Bangladesh, or DEI projects in Serbia?

Congressional representatives. You can share what you know with your representative and ask they investigate. Congress regularly calls in bureaucrats to talk about budgets. If your case bears out, ask your members of Congress to propose amendments to the next budget cutting or fixing bad programs. And representatives very often add amendments targeting specific programs, or even sponsor such bills. We don't often hear about them because they're not sexy enough for news.

The goals toward which we spend tax dollars must be debated by representatives of the people. The executive branch will then be told the goals, the structure, the controls, and the budget. If the executive agrees, they sign the bill. Afterwards, the executive's power is in deciding who will carry out the goals and how to adapt to the situation on the ground while staying within the boundaries of the law. If the law is too restrictive, the executive can talk to Congress.

What must not happen is an executive deciding to ignore a law voted on by the majority of Congress and signed by a president. That's not an executive power, that's just an unconstitutional power grab. If we allow that, there's basically no point to Congress.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:45PM (#43144060)
But Congress never voted on funding dissidents in Bangladesh or DEI in Serbia. The process you’re describing isn’t how these grants were made in the first pace. Congress passed broad appropriations bills, such as allocating $3 billion for implementing the foreign assistance act of 1961. Additionally, USAID got $5.7 billion in “untied” money last year: https://www.devex.com/news/money-matters-how-usaid-got-billi...

The specific grants Trump is freezing were determined by the executive itself. They can be cancelled by the executive too. At some point, of course, Trump will need to seek recession under the impoundment act if USAID isn’t going to use its full appropriation. But in the meantime it’s totally within his authority to cancel specific grants that were decided by the executive in the first place.

Like, here's an example: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2617... (search USAID)

> UNITED STATES AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

> Funds Appropriated to the President

> operating expenses

> For necessary expenses to carry out the provisions of section 667 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, $1,743,350,000

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by elliotto on Saturday February 22, 2025 @05:06PM (#43143758)
https://youtu.be/O4xHdUOI7ag?si=RPBNdpAiYHuYe7rf

I would strongly recommend listening to Rory Stewart's commentary in the first half of this podcast about the function and role of USAID as an expression of soft power.

Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by rayiner on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:22PM (#43144828)
I have never heard of Rory Stewart. My family came to this country because of USAID and my dad worked for USAID contractors his whole career. Probably 2/3 of the people at my family's Thanksgivings work for USAID and/or World Bank. Whatever "soft power" is projected by USAID is because of stuff like PEPFAR. But Samantha Powers--who my dad hates--shredded that good will by getting USAID involved in "democracy." Why would countries like India and Bangladesh ever trust USAID again after finding out USAID was funding political movements in their countries? It confirms what half the world already thinks about America: busybodies that meddle in other countries' internal affairs.
Re:DOGE's Only Public Ledger Is Riddled with Mistakes by elliotto on Sunday February 23, 2025 @06:03PM (#43154090)
I'm from Australia lol the US constantly interferes in our country directly and indirectly. 'Busybody that meddles' is a pretty soft term for it, I would call it aggressively destablises its allies.

If you take away the premise that the US is doing something good, like for PEPFAR, then what is left? A gun wielding maniacal imperial power that you have no reason to deal or treat with. This is bad for the US and bad for the world