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Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by nikolay on Thursday January 23, 2025 @02:58PM (#42807460)
Don't trans people usually date/meet with non-trans people!?
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by Melonai on Thursday January 23, 2025 @03:12PM (#42807593)
No, trans people dating other trans people is actually extremely common (both homo- and heterosexual). Often because both (or more) people often understand each others struggles and wants way better than cis people do, and simply because if you like spending time primarily in trans-heavy communities, you will likely fall for someone who's also trans.
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Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:12PM (#42808135)
The HSTS / AGP dichotomy is not taken seriously among trans people or care providers, don't listen to this person.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:14PM (#42808167)
Anecdote with no backing evidence. Your virulent personal attacks are not a good look.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by wizzwizz4 on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:19PM (#42808197)
In the post-Karl Popper academic landscape, it's hard to beat the absurdity to explanatory-power ratio of Sigmund Freud's "penis envy", but Ray Blanchard's ravings about trans people are certainly a contender.

The "science experiments" he ran to "support" his "theories" aren't quite Philip Zimbardo levels of unethical quackery, but I'm still not sure how attaching electrodes to people's genitals and making them watch porn is a sensible way to categorise anyone, even ignoring the fudging required to make his experiments show the "correct" results.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by mmooss on Thursday January 23, 2025 @05:29PM (#42808728)
> In the post-Karl Popper academic landscape

OT: What do you mean by that? I know Popper, I can guess what you mean, but what do you mean?

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by wizzwizz4 on Friday January 24, 2025 @07:11AM (#42812352)
I mean that scientific theories nowadays are supposed to make testable predictions, and when those predictions consistently fail, you have to say "okay, this theory is not correct". If your theory is capable of "explaining" every possible piece of evidence, it's not a scientific theory. (Some people would go further than Karl Popper, saying that it's not even meaningful.)

I'm pretty sure this is in The Open Society and Its Enemies, but I can't remember. I do know that it's in this webcomic: https://existentialcomics.com/comic/285

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by mmooss on Friday January 24, 2025 @12:32PM (#42815398)
Thanks. Not to dive too far into the weeds ... but I'm wondering if there's something I misunderstand about Popper:

> If your theory is capable of "explaining" every possible piece of evidence, it's not a scientific theory.

Do you mean, if your theory is not falsifiable? If your falsifiable theory is not (yet) falsified, if you magically know it never will be falsified, isn't it still a theory?

(If it's just a matter of wording on an Internet comment, then sorry to bother you - I don't mean to play gotcha.)

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by wizzwizz4 on Friday January 24, 2025 @04:31PM (#42817105)
I've misused the word "possible": I meant to say that if the theory is equally-capable of "explaining" two mutually-incompatible states of affairs, it does not actually have the explanatory power that all scientific theories must have. Which, yes, I think "falsifiable" is the correct word for that. (Although, you'll note that my explanation of "falsifiable" is not precisely correct. I think I've convinced myself that there is no logically-precise definition of "falsifiable", and that it inherently leans on some intuitive notion of "possibly-falsifying evidence" which we have to take for granted, like philosophical induction.)

However, that was itself me being lazy, because Blanchard's typology does make concrete predictions about what sorts of people exist. The assertion that people can be classified into "attracted to women" and "not attracted to women" is refuted by the Kinsey Reports (and many better studies besides); the assertion that being trans is a sex thing is refuted by the existence of certain ace trans people; the assertion that transition is about imitation is refuted by the existence of certain non-binary people…

Of course, Ray Blanchard himself bolts on new categories whenever he can't fudge the analysis to fit a pre-existing conclusion – last I checked, he had around 10 categories – but most adherents treat the original two categories as dogma. (The lengths to which people will go for a gender binary…)

Really, I should say that if you're cis and relying on thought experiments, Blanchard's typology is unfalsifiable: you will simply not be able to observe any evidence that refutes it. I myself (not then having much contact with out trans people (if we discount Reddit)) had to do a lot of introspection (could I rule out self-deception? wishful thinking? how?) before I concluded that either my internal subjective experience refuted the typology (and its variants), or I was too insane to be capable of reasoning. This tendency towards solipsism did not do me many favours (and was ultimately quite harmful, for reasons I will not discuss here), but it did at least prepare me for the many other academics who talk out of their arses about things they have no legitimate claim to expertise in, save for being among the first academics to study it. (Or, in Ray Blanchard's case, among the first academics to study it after the Nazi purge.)

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by mmooss on Friday January 24, 2025 @06:23PM (#42817925)
I am not advocating for Blanchard in any way, in case I'm giving that impression, just talking about Popper in general.

Thought experiments, unless something provable like mathematics, are worse than useless, they are deceiving. There is an evil demon that deceives us, that we cannot overcome.

The only source of knowledge is to go out and ask, 'what do you mean?' Thanks for answering!

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by wizzwizz4 on Friday January 24, 2025 @06:30PM (#42817959)
You're not giving that impression, but your criticism was warranted. (I don't understand falsification as well as I thought I did.)

I wouldn't quite say that thought experiments are always deceiving (Albert Einstein found them quite useful, for example), but they are very parodiable. https://existentialcomics.com/comic/183

> "Did he just… not see any of us?" "Rationalists are terrible at seeing stuff. He probably just tried to deduce who was here from reason alone."

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by mmooss on Friday January 24, 2025 @06:40PM (#42818017)
> criticism

Really, purely curiosity. At first, one thing I was wondering was if some new theory might have caught hold in some corner of academia, for example. Then I wondered if I misunderstood falsification myself.

> Einstein found them quite useful, for example

He is why I made the exception for math. His 'experiment' used math (exclusively?) - and wasn't relied upon until confirmed empirically.

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Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by wizzwizz4 on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:33PM (#42808310)
Any argument against zodiac (birth) signs would apply equally well here. In fact, zodiac signs survive criticism better, because at least they have well-defined boundary conditions. What kind of "fetishistic transvestism" do I have if I'm a sex-repulsed aromantic trans woman?
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:38PM (#42808358)
Transitioning is a big deal and upends your life. You'll only do it if you really feel you need to. It's a process, not a momentary declaration. Neither AGPs nor HSTS are generally asexual. The OP's website is extremely explicitly sexual. Your Zodiac analogy has no basis for comparison. Sometimes there are only a handful of possible causes for a condition with very little overlap. The only thing AGP and HSTS have in common is how they wish to present to the world by definition. It actually fits essentially every individual who seeks to endure the excruciating process of transition.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by wizzwizz4 on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:42PM (#42808386)
So it fits "essentially every individual", except the example I just gave? Come on, even Freudian psychoanalysis has a better success rate than that.

> the excruciating process of transition

I have only ever seen people describe transition with words like "excruciating" for two reasons:

• Social barriers, e.g. medical gatekeeping, transphobic bigotry.

• Believing in the Blanchard or 4chan classification systems, and constantly judging themselves accordingly.

Please don't hold onto this so tight. It's not healthy, and there's zero evidence that it's even remotely true.

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Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by dang on Thursday January 23, 2025 @05:01PM (#42808514)
Could you please stop taking this thread down a generic tangent, which is inevitably a generic flamewar tangent? This is a Show HN thread about t4t's new forum.

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by LordDragonfang on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:43PM (#42808390)
https://aella.substack.com/p/everyone-has-autogynephilia

If you want to base your understanding of the world on data rather than anecdata, here.

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Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by LordDragonfang on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:57PM (#42808485)
> we can move on

Considering you've replied to 3 different threads starting the same flame war (and are apparently unwilling to accept actual data), I am very skeptical of your ability to move on.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by gowld on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:04PM (#42808048)
Can you cite any trans person who publicly agrees with your description of them as "HSTS"?
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:06PM (#42808074)
Sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPOuDvvKD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK1XI6-z0GE

Most HSTS aren't terminally online so you won't find as much content. They don't seek out the spotlight as activists and would rather live a normal life as women generally.

I'm not a conservative or right wing chud. This is important for the public to understand.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:09PM (#42808102)
In 2024 I went on a bit of a dating spree and I had first dates with 6 other trans women. 1 cis woman ghosted me.

I think most cis women-who-love-women do like trans women, but they just have more options.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by oluckyman on Thursday January 23, 2025 @06:01PM (#42808966)
Indeed. It's hard to believe that until relatively recently people thought that sexual attraction was fundamentally based in biology rather than identity.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by azeirah on Thursday January 23, 2025 @07:12PM (#42809347)
Sexual attraction is fundamentally based in biology.

Trans people are part of biology. It's what happens when you are exposed to cross-sex hormones.

Personally, I tend to view (my own) transition as embracing an intersex condition with medical intervention.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by oluckyman on Thursday January 23, 2025 @07:46PM (#42809514)
But many trans women have no hormonal or surgical interventions at all. Are you implying that cis lesbians are not attracted to them?
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by defrost on Thursday January 23, 2025 @07:53PM (#42809547)
Humans rarely neatly fit into sharply defined boxes with no bleed across boundaries.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by azeirah on Thursday January 23, 2025 @09:17PM (#42809949)
Hmm.. I dunno.

Not implicating anything in particular, other than that biology is ridiculously complex. I can only speak from personal experience.

Before I transitioned, I noticed there was a pattern in my life where cis lesbians were interested in me, I've even dated a lesbian cis girl _as a boy_ when I was about 15 or something like that.

Biology is very strange.

I personally use the word "soul" for this kind of stuff. But that's nonsensical in the end.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by numpad0 on Friday January 24, 2025 @10:47AM (#42814239)
if attraction not biological how one get attracted to another? by being educated that humans generally do? there's nothing ruling out biology in that
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by sapphicsnail on Thursday January 23, 2025 @08:50PM (#42809833)
The longer I've been involved with the queer community the fuzzier things get. I very much looked and acted like a guy when I was younger but was drawn to lesbians and always seemed to get along with them and they were the only people I felt comfortable talking about women's bodies with. My first 2 hookups after I started transitioning were with cis lesbians. This was before I started hormone therapy. The relationship I was in when I came out was with someone who still identifies as a cishet woman but 3 of her exes have come out as trans women in their 30s. There are so many ways to be attracted to people and strange ways we are drawn to each other. I've noticed that the kinds of people that are casually interested in me has changed with my body but my own conception of what desire is has become so nebulous.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by bobxmax on Thursday January 23, 2025 @03:54PM (#42807953)
I would assume most non-trans people aren't willing to date trans people, so there's probably a pretty glaring need for them to have their own spaces.
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Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:02PM (#42808035)
For casual readers: Blanchard's theories are widely discredited and "Autogynephile" is considered an impolite term among trans people.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:04PM (#42808055)
Blanchard's work reigns as the clinically accepted typology for patients seeking transition. It is a clinical term, not a slur as you wish to portray it in bad faith.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by dgares on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:16PM (#42808176)
> Blanchard's work reigns as the clinically accepted typology for patients seeking transition.

False. The clinically accepted typology is 'Gender Dysphoria', as under the DSM-5. The only place AGP is referenced in the DSM is as a subtype of 'Transvestic Disorder' (Transvestic Disorder With Autogynephilia), which is marked explicitly as crossdressing and imagining oneself as a woman solely for sexual purposes. The two diagnoses (Gender Dysphoria and Transvestic Disorder) are distinct from one another and not related.

Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:19PM (#42808201)
Not referencing the DSM. Psychologists will consult the DSM. Once referred to a sex change clinic there is more nuance involved. That's where Blanchard noticed the marked differences in the patients.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by hackermatic on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:08PM (#42808090)
That has not been the case in the three cities and health systems (edit: in the US) in which I've had transgender care over the past decade.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:13PM (#42808150)
You have brought up a personal anecdote but not listed a single point countering Blanchard's typology?
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:12PM (#42808145)
I've never heard a doctor say those words, I think you're a troll
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by popcalc on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:13PM (#42808157)
This is a zero effort comment and personal attack rather than a real criticism.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by DonHopkins on Thursday January 23, 2025 @06:31PM (#42809146)
Your very trolling is a personal attack by definition, and your criticism is unreal and unhinged.
Re:Show HN: I built an active community of trans people online by gemerald on Friday January 24, 2025 @03:54AM (#42811571)
It hits the nail on the head, of course the men it reveals as depraved autistic fetishists would take offense to it.