> I am no audiophile but Sonos is actually quite expensive vs getting some streamer like Wiim with basic cheap amp and any solid speaker brand - KEF, Elac, Klipsh, Polk…

The whole point is Sonos is easy. One product for speakers. Another one for a sub (which most people don't even need). Ok now you're done. And then there's people who really don't have space for all that.

KEF LS50 Wireless IIs and Dutch & Dutch 8cs are just a couple example of how the hifi market has embraced embedded streamers. They are excellent options for high quality sound with very low setup.

You still miss the streamer. The speakers are active with bluetooth reciever but cant play music by themselves. I am not sure if then its not better to go sonos. Either go full modular or nothing. Active speakers are not popular exactly because its usually the amp that dies and then your speakers die with it.

Then again you can look for wiim mini packaged with active speakers - they have colab/packages like this. I recently got wiim+edifier [1] in sale for 130usd and its shockingly good combo for fraction of sonos (especially since its stereo).

[1] https://a.co/d/12SwuBQ

> You still miss the streamer

Are you familar with the models I've referenced? Both include streamers.

Oh interesting. You are right i always thought they are not streamers and thats why i always dismissed idea of LS50 Wireless. That makes it indeed a lot more interesting if you are $$$ and dont really care if they one day stop software support.

yeah, so you've gone from walking in to a store and coming out with a single box that you can plug in to power and connect to wifi and get music on, to decision on what amp to buy, and a decision on which of the hundred nearly identical bookshelf speakers to get, a question on whether your amp will drive those speakers. and then you've got to find a store to actually sell you all that stuff. it's an entirely different market from what sonos is providing to customers.

fwiw i did exactly what you're suggesting for my personal use, i've got a wiim pro and a fosi v3 and kanto 5" speakers and i'm very happy with my setup. but i'm a nerd who likes shopping for things like that, and i know enough to know that most people would rather not. and it's not like i saved anything compared to going with a sonos.

So instead of:

> because the problem with sonos is that they're actually really really good. dollar for dollar

They were really expensive, but people confused quality (why else would it cost so much) with convenience and were happy not knowing about anything else.

It's a good strategy, works well for other companies. But when you remove the convenience part of it everything else falls apart too.

So now choice is a bad thing? Let people have their Sonoses. The thing with audio gear is that if you get any of the recommended (youtube, reddit) cheap stuff and you are not audiophile level hobbiist you will like it.

I would not say you didnt get anything back. You got setup where at minimum the speakers will work for decades.

Afaik WiiM ultra doesnt have Airplay yet as is new it needs certification. I believe this was the case with other their devices.

People who pay for WiiM ultra most likely dont care about Airplay anyway because Airplay 2 devices send lossy AAC 256kbps audio. You dont get streamer for 329usd to send reencoded music there. You get it so it streams from the original sources directly.

official word from wiim is that the ultra will never have airplay

the reason airplay matters so much is that even if you want great audio quality and care about the bitrate of your music, other people in your house don't and just want to make music come out of the speakers. no airplay resigns the device to "nobody else can use it" status.

I wonder what all the people with Android or Windows are doing? I guess they cant listen to music… What a sad life it has to be.