> Being financially secure and not caring about a promotion is the biggest superpower you can have at a tech company.

And not being in the country on an H1B…

This is not a rant against H1B Visa holders. It’s a condemnation of the system that makes their ability to stay in the country contingent on their job.

I saw it first hand at AWS. When Amazon started Amazoning when I was working there, I knew what was up and wasn’t stressed, didn’t jump through the hoops to stay off PIP and when they gave me the choice of getting 4 months severance and “leave immediately”. I took the money and ran and got another job in 3 weeks.

My coworkers who were there on H1B, were definitely afraid, even if they did have more than enough money to hypothetically tide them over.

I knew I could get a job, a contract, start independent consulting or do something before my money ran out. That wasn’t an option for them.

For those who don’t know how the PIP process works at Amazon…

- if you choose to “leave immediately” instead of working through the PIP, you got one month of base pay for every year and partial year you worked there.

- if you failed the PIP (and you will), you got 1/3 of the original amount.

- of course you can appeal. But if you fail (and you will). You get 1/2 of the 1/3.

You think H1-Bs are bad? Trying being on an L1 :)

Why is L1 any worse ?

Unless I'm mistaken, you can transfer employers on an H1-B, and you have 90 days to find a new job if you get laid off. On an L1 you are immediately out of status when your employment is terminated, with no option of transfer

I don’t feel as bad for L1 Visa holders. They came over specifically because they were already working for a specific company and that’s no different than being deployed in the military overseas and then having to leave once you leave the military.

From what I read, it’s also much easier to get and L1 Visas aren’t subject to the same caps and red tape.

I personally wouldn’t even move across the country beholden to a single company

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38474212

I would be very hesitant to create roots in another country - like buying house - dependent on one company and not having a back up plan and the expectation that it was temporary and a way to save a lot of money

I voluntarily went on an L1 so my spouse could work. H1b spouses cannot work.

Do you consider a “temporary deployment” (using my military analogy) or do you want to permanently be in the US?

From the context of my previous comments, I hope you don’t read that as anti- immigration question

My situation is already a little different because prior to my L1 I was already working in the USA on a different visa. So I worked in the USA, then outside the USA, then returned to the USA (upon which I picked the L1 over the H1B for my spouse). My feelings on whether I want to stay permanently have changed a bunch of times, but in the end, I probably won't get a choice. Both L1 and H1B have time limits, and due to COVID and my company doing various layoffs I probably won't get a green card in time.

When Elon cracked the whip in Twitter, everyone on H1B interviewed and eventually left. At the end, most people left at Twitter were US citizens and a few H1Bs. Yes they may not have the ability to just quit on a whim, but they certainly have the ability to quit. And that’s what people do.

Sure they can quit on their own volition.

But they couldn’t do like I could when I saw the writing on the wall when I was about to get Amazoned

Options for me:

1. F** it. I will just quit and start working on building up my own independent cloud consulting business (I worked in Professional Services)

2. Stick around until the official PIP comes and get a 3+ month severance and survive until my next vesting period. One of my former coworkers suggested this. He was a director at an F500 company and said he could at least get me a very well paying contract until he could get a position created for me once I got PIPd. He wanted me specifically.

3. The option I chose was to work for another consulting company that didn't offer sponsorships - I asked for another coworker who was looking.

> And not being in the country on an H1B…

> This is not a rant against H1B Visa holders. It’s a condemnation of the system that makes their ability to stay in the country contingent on their job.

They are always free to go back to their home countries.

Neither the US, nor their employer, is obligated to guarantee them anything more than the circumstances and conditions that the visa holders agreed to in the first place. The circumstances and conditions that the holders agreed to because they decided, voluntarily, that they would be better off in the US than in their home countries.

And companies take advantage of the situation. If they paid taxes and have the money to stay here without government assistance - besides unemployment that is paid into by their employer - who is it hurting to give them more than 60 days to find another job??

H-1B visa holders are generally not eligible for unemployment insurance benefits.

https://www.chugh.com/news/h1-b-workers-unemployment-benefit...

That’s even a better argument for extending the time they have to find another job.

> Every single terrible job experience is the result of a shitty power tripping manager.

Having been both employee and manager, it's hardly that one-sided. For example, having an employee coming in high is not the manager's fault.

why do you think employee had to get high :)

LOL

BTW, as my career progressed, I tended to shift my view of the manager as less of someone telling me what to do into a partner who was empowered to remove obstacles to my doing the job successfully.

> a partner who was empowered to remove obstacles to my doing the job successfully.

This is actually one of defined and quite successful current management models.

Mediocre managers hire, create, and retain mediocre reports, with an emphasis on create.

I welcome AI that replaces the mediocre bottom 80% of managers that lower a companies bottom line. The top 20% won't be replaced soon.

I once got a new boss who was one of these power trippers. He and I didn't get along. But I was making my customers happy and I was making his boss happy; my job was completely secure.

At review time he told me in a very condescending tone "I just don't think I can recommend you for a raise this year."

My response was "Oh good. That means I can do whatever I want."

Nobody had ever said that to him before. Shortly afterward he took a leave of absence for mental health reasons.

good on you!

Power move. Well done.

>Being financially secure and not caring about a promotion is the biggest superpower you can have at a tech company.

Highly relevant:

TIL what "FYIFV" means at Microsoft. "Fuck You, I'm Fully Vested" means that a person is so rich from Microsoft stock that he can be completely honest to coworkers and can leave anytime. <https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1ax59rb/til_w...>

I welcome our new AI middle management overlords.

May the PHBs R.I.P.

It doesn't work like this at all. PHBs exist because top management doesn't want to be even remotely concerned with employee management. Actually, not that many people do: you have bosses above you who expect you to push things in one direction, then you have your reports who tell you their story, you understand both sides have their merits but one is more important so in order to keep your job you do what you are expected to do. With some teams everything works fine, in other cases things go downhill. When you compare this with working with machines, it can be exhausting, unless you enjoy this kind of challenges.

But is this ivory tower hands off manager good for companies?

It seems the Musks and Ghosns of management reject this hands off approach and achieve great results.