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Re: by epolanski on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:31PM (#42590168)
Gonna tell you a secret, the world isn't black and white, while there are areas such as the economy where we struggle to compete as an European I would never want to live in the US again (I studied in Columbus Ohio for 7 months as an exchange student at OSU and traveled US multiple times).

The streets here are clean, spotting a homeless person is borderline impossible even if you try, in US I've seen tents, bidonvilles, homelessness everywhere, drugged zombies as soon as you entered the wrong streets in basically every city.

There's much less anxiety around healthcare or education here, violence and crime are very different too. My 180k people city hasn't seen a murder (outside very few caused by family violence, which are virtually the only cause for murders in my country) in decades.

Actually now that I think about it, I also found Canada (where my wife has family that emigrated there 80 years ago) to be better in all those regards. Have you ever crossed from Canada to US at Niagara falls? If you did and walked more than 500 meters you know what I'm talking about.

Mind you, there's no doubt US does many things great, as an engineer and wannabe entrepeneur I know US would've given me more chances, but believe it or not, not everybody wants to live the american way and money isn't everything if you have to use it to feel safer and less anxious in guarded neighbourhoods like some of my best friends in US live in.

There's countless things that US does great, and that does awfully, different people and cultures may weigh the pros/cons differently.

Re: by adamc on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:57PM (#42590378)
FWIW, as an American, I see it as a mixed bag. Our economy is stronger, but it creates a lot of wealth inequality and unhappiness.
Re: by wesselbindt on Friday January 03, 2025 @08:20PM (#42591350)
Do you see a strong economy as a goal in itself? I see it as a proxy measure for the things that truly matter. Happiness, good health, good education, the freedom to lead your life the way you want. America fails miserably on all of those.
Re: by kccqzy on Friday January 03, 2025 @11:12PM (#42592323)
A strong economy makes the rich richer. (Trickle down didn't work.) That means for the rich who are beneficiaries of a strong economy, they are indeed enjoying happiness, good health, good education, and the freedom to lead a good life.
Re: by adamc on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:45PM (#42596733)
I don't think America fails on all of those. Our universities are probably the best in the world. There is a lot of freedom.

And having a strong economy is generally a good thing -- there are jobs, which matters.

Re: by wesselbindt on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:25PM (#42596998)
> There is a lot of freedom

The US is fifth in the world in terms of incarceration rate (i.e., there are only 4 countries which imprison a larger portion of their population). The thirteenth amendment allows the US to enslave its imprisoned population (which they do, and it's a very lucrative business). The US also has a thing called the death penalty where they literally _kill_ the person convicted of a crime.

According to the world press freedom index, the US ranks 55th when it comes to freedom of the press.

I don't know if you know this, but the US has been holding immigrant kids in cages at the border. Started with Obama, increased under Trump, and then increased some more under Biden.

Guantanamo also still exists, but I suppose torturing civilians without formally charging them for a crime doesn't count against the freedom of US citizens.

By what metric does the US have a lot of freedom?

> Our universities are probably the best in the world

Good colleges aren't worth anything if only the owning class can afford to send their kids there. Going to college puts people into lifelong debt (in America, that is). Out of the top 10 universities in the world according to the QS world ranking, 4 are from the UK, 4 from the US, despite the UK having about a fifth of the population of the US.

> And having a strong economy is generally a good thing -- there are jobs, which matters.

There were jobs during slavery too (I mean the slavery from before 1865, not the 13th amendment slavery from today). Jobs are not an inherent good. About 40% of the homeless (in the US) have a job, but cannot afford housing.

Re: by buzzert on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:55PM (#42590363)
With respect to your lived experiences, as a fan of the US I would just like to say that it is a country of 330m+ whose physical presence spans a majority of a major continent, so I would encourage you not to generalize us based on what you saw in Columbus. That would be like me visiting Paris (a city I particularly did not enjoy) and generalizing all of Europe!
Re: by ska on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:22PM (#42590952)
>whose physical presence spans a majority of a major continent,

I take your point, but this part isn't true. Canada is a little larger, and then there is also Mexico which is about 1/2 the size, so US is roughly 2/5ths of North America.

Re: by bombcar on Friday January 03, 2025 @10:17PM (#42592052)
uS is over 9m sq kms, Mexico is under 2.

Canada is larger than the US but if the US extended its northern border 50 miles Canada wouldn’t have any population left.

Re: by ska on Saturday January 04, 2025 @12:57AM (#42592773)
Oh you’re right about relative size of Mexico - my memory had a units error (km vs mi). Still, it’s not even as big as Canada so the statement wasn’t close to right…. It’s a bit under 9/20
Re: by lucb1e on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:32PM (#42590651)
What of this is not true for the rest of the country then? I haven't visited at all but what the comment above you mentioned (basically the woes of limited social mobility, bad employment terms including tying healthcare to it if you're not rich, insane incarceration, etc.) is the kind of stats and stories I'm familiar with. The country does some things well also, as the commenter above also said, but it's not a place either of us would recommend most people to live after having known EU life. If there is even 10% of the 'major continent' that is not as described (besides Canada), I'm genuinely curious to know of it
Re: by titanomachy on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:46PM (#42590745)
> I haven't visited at all

> it's not a place [I] would recommend most people to live

Your recommendation (or lack thereof) carries little weight, then.

But to actually answer your question, there are many places in the US (urban, suburban, and rural) where fear of violent crime is not a major factor in the day-to-day life of most people. I don't know anyone who has been a victim of violent crime, and it does not feature prominently in conversations. In fact, the highly touristic areas in Europe seem to have more crime than anywhere I've personally been in the US, but I know better than to judge the entire continent by those outliers. I probably worry about as much about gang violence in south-side Chicago as you do about Romanian sex traffickers, or pickpockets in the 1st arrondissement of Paris.

Re: by lucb1e on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:36PM (#42591042)
Thanks for the answer. Though I can't say that I expected most people to fear being violently killed on a daily basis indeed, murder is something the person above mentioned so that technically is an answer to my question about which bit is not ubiquitous for the country
Re: by titanomachy on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:40PM (#42591068)
Fair enough, I only provided a counterexample to a part of the argument. I think a lot of the social criticism in that comment is more accurate, e.g. the stuff about health care and education quality. In a lot of America it seems like the only solution to those things is "don't be poor".
Re: by buzzert on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:20PM (#42590943)
Right, exactly! I personally felt much less safe in Paris than anywhere in the US (including Chicago and Oakland), which is not to say "I'm right and you're wrong", it's just entirely subjective and often the result of having not traveled extensively enough or lack of understanding.
Re: by lttlrck on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:31PM (#42591015)
I'm not particularly street smart having grown up in a tiny village in England.

But I too have felt no more threatened in numerous US urban and suburban cities than I have in many places in Europe - and the UK...

It's not without its problems but if it was _that_ bad I wouldn't have stayed...

Re: by lttlrck on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:25PM (#42590969)
10%?!? That's not grounded in reality - only ignorance, maybe prejudice.
Re: by lucb1e on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:28PM (#42590986)
I'm not sure what you're responding to. I'm asking whether there is any bit of the place that is worth differentiating from what was said above, not having a prejudice about any which 10%
Re: by buzzerbetrayed on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:26AM (#42593129)
There are countless resources you can use to solve your extreme ignorance of the US. Asking people in a HN thread probably isn’t the most effective.
Re: by lucb1e on Saturday January 04, 2025 @11:00AM (#42595489)
Easy to say "you're extremely ignorant" without even mentioning what of the data I saw is wrong, let alone provide a correction. Also makes it hard to know where to even start to either update my understanding or find that you're wrong and I'm wasting my time, whichever case it may be
Re: by titanomachy on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:41PM (#42590714)
I've lived in the US and Canada (a couple large cities in each country), and briefly in a medium-sized city in France.

Canadian cities are the cleanest of the three countries, but homelessness and drug use are just as prevalent in Canada as in the US. I don't remember seeing many addicts in Europe but there were certainly a lot of homeless refugees when I lived there. I guess you could argue that's not the fault of the host country, unlike the homelessness in Canada/US.

Other than that, the US cities I've lived in have felt safe and livable, with vibrant street life and plenty of great restaurants and events. I prefer urban neighborhoods which are close to the downtown core, but outside of it; the visible social problems seem to be very concentrated in certain areas, which can be avoided.

If by "guarded neighborhoods" you mean gated communities with full-time live security, I think your friends are major outliers. A very small minority of people live that way in America.

I do agree with you about "less anxiety around healthcare or education". My European friends see the world and life very differently. People don't feel guilty about living a normal life in the same way that some Americans seem to: the culture here screams "strive" and "excel", and I think that drives a lot of people to be miserable when they feel they are falling short of that expectation.

Re: by bombcar on Friday January 03, 2025 @10:20PM (#42592061)
Every city in the world has good parts and bad parts, the question is in what proportion and how are they changing.

The ones that are weirdest to me is when you have people living in gated skyscrapers with homeless literally leaning against the sides of the building, so much wealth and destitution mere inches apart.

Re: by 3vidence on Friday January 03, 2025 @10:44PM (#42592189)
Did you say you can't spot a homeless person in Canada???

This literally can't be true every single large city in Canada is struggling with increasing homelessness right now.

Do you live in a cabin up in Muskoka??

Re: by epolanski on Saturday January 04, 2025 @04:18AM (#42593631)
I admit I've been there only once for a month in 2017 but I meant that the situation was better than what I saw in the US at the same time.

I have stayed in Hamilton, Lake Ontario and traveled Toronto, Quebec area, etc.

Re: by 3vidence on Sunday January 05, 2025 @02:22AM (#42600299)
Fair enough! I must say you would be very surprised how much Canada has changed in the last 8 - 10 years. Its pretty astonishing