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Re:Updates to H-1B by zipy124 on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @06:04PM (#42456495)
Wait the low range of that link is £45k but you say work study placement people get $75k a year?
Re:Updates to H-1B by bitcurious on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @06:35PM (#42456718)
There might be some regionality built in; viewed from the US the range is $265K - $463K/yr.
Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @07:41PM (#42457136)
That is outrageous that two seemingly developed countries could have such a huge compensation gap. A senior aerospace engineer in the UK can make as little as 45k GBP, or 56k USD? One fifth as much as the lowest-paid American??

The take-home on that is £35k. The median rent in London is £26k. I suppose the person making £45k doesn't likely live in London, but still pretty grim.

https://www.economist.com/special-report/2024/10/14/the-amer...

Re:Updates to H-1B by paleotrope on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @08:37PM (#42457454)
You guys get the NHS though.
Re:Updates to H-1B by winter_blue on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @10:55PM (#42458282)
I don’t know if you’re making a joke or not, but getting NHS isn’t worth $200,000 USD per year.

Most Americans get employer-provided health insurance, which costs money (the amount specified in the DD section of the W2), and its often in the $1500/month range. That DD amount isn’t part of your income or the salary Glassdoor mentions. It’s an added benefit of top of that.

In the UK and elsewhere, around $500/month/person in taxes pays for your healthcare. That’s essentially subtracted from your income. So the uk income is even lower when you subtract the taxes the NHS costs.

Re:Updates to H-1B by sofixa on Thursday December 19, 2024 @07:17AM (#42460746)
> I don’t know if you’re making a joke or not, but getting NHS isn’t worth $200,000 USD per year.

Nope, but NHS + no/less student loans + no car dependency + cheaper childcare + time off + a ton of other things shave quite a bit off that $200k. Not equal, and not in every personal case, but a lot.

Re:Updates to H-1B by winter_blue on Friday December 20, 2024 @01:14PM (#42473356)
Isn’t housing extremely unaffordable in the UK though? That erases a lot of these benefits, doesn’t it? (I’m aware this is true of a lot of HCOL areas in the U.S. as well.)
Re:Updates to H-1B by samatman on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @09:25PM (#42457757)
Yes but those numbers are pre-tax income.
Re:Updates to H-1B by rangestransform on Thursday December 19, 2024 @09:13AM (#42461545)
Canadian and not UKian, but our public healthcare is definitely not worth 50% of my take home cash, I get much better access to care in the US right now. it still says Canada on my passport so I can get healthcare if I get fired or chronically ill
Re:Updates to H-1B by beezlebroxxxxxx on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @11:47PM (#42458508)
> One fifth as much as the lowest-paid American??

Americans are often blown away and kind of ignorant of how, relative to the rest of the world, they are really wealthy and well paid. Like, people have way less disposable incomes in other parts of the world, even developed countries. The purchase power of the USD and the power of the US economy is absolutely insane.

Re:Updates to H-1B by loeg on Thursday December 19, 2024 @12:27AM (#42458671)
The UK is really, really poor compared to the US.
Re:Updates to H-1B by throwaway48476 on Thursday December 19, 2024 @01:29AM (#42458966)
The UK is poor because they decided to financialize the economy in the 90s and stop making things. It's like canada where the GDP per capita goes down every year. I'm amazed there hasn't been a revolution.
Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Thursday December 19, 2024 @01:38AM (#42459014)
> canada where the GDP per capita goes down every year

Couldn't this largely be explained by their importing huge amounts of low-income people?

Re:Updates to H-1B by throwaway48476 on Thursday December 19, 2024 @02:11AM (#42459174)
Of course. Canadians are still getting poorer every year and that's the salient point.
Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Saturday December 21, 2024 @03:34PM (#42482098)
Sure, but expanding the definition of “Canadian” to include people who were already poor is a bit different from people who were already Canadian becoming poorer.
Re:Updates to H-1B by n4r9 on Thursday December 19, 2024 @06:37AM (#42460500)
I don't think the average migrant salary is much different from the average UK citizen salary. Then again, I also don't find the "financialisation" argument very compelling. Plus, the GDP per capita visibly does not go down every year.
Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Friday December 20, 2024 @12:46AM (#42468611)
> GDP per capita does not go down

It does in Canada, I think that’s what he meant

Re:Updates to H-1B by n4r9 on Friday December 20, 2024 @03:15PM (#42474588)
It doesn't go down every year in Canada either.
Re:Updates to H-1B by foldr on Thursday December 19, 2024 @09:25AM (#42461658)
GDP per capita has not gone down every year in Canada or in the UK:

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-per-capita#:~:text=T...

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-per-capita

(Click the button to check the 25 year view.)

Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Friday December 20, 2024 @12:48AM (#42468625)
According to Stats Canada, “Real GDP per capita has now declined in five of the past six quarters”, so fair to say it’s currently declining. This was news to me.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024004/artic...

Re:Updates to H-1B by foldr on Friday December 20, 2024 @05:42AM (#42469941)
OP’s post clearly suggested a long term trend of declining GDP per capita (“every year”), which is not the case.
Re:Updates to H-1B by foldr on Thursday December 19, 2024 @06:26AM (#42460442)
The UK is poorer than the US, but US software engineering salaries are an outlier. The difference is not as big as that comparison would suggest.
Re:Updates to H-1B by gspetr on Thursday December 19, 2024 @09:16AM (#42461565)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/03/britai...

"another respected data journalist, John Burn-Murdoch, calculated that without London, the UK would be poorer, in terms of GDP per capita, than even the poorest US state, Mississippi."

Re:Updates to H-1B by foldr on Thursday December 19, 2024 @09:23AM (#42461631)
Yes, it's true that the UK economy is very London-centric, but the original poster was talking about the UK as a whole vs the US as a whole. (The flip side of this is that the figures would look better if you compared London to a major US city.)

None of this changes the fact that US software engineering salaries are a poor comparison to use to illustrate wealth disparities between the US and other countries, as they are an outlier.

Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Friday December 20, 2024 @12:50AM (#42468631)
The above comparison was actually aerospace engineering, not software.
Re:Updates to H-1B by foldr on Friday December 20, 2024 @05:45AM (#42469958)
Regardless, Americans are not five times richer than Brits by any reasonable measure. The salaries in the comparison upthread are outliers. The exact figure obviously depends on which stat you look at, but Americans are around 50% richer by most measures.
Re:Updates to H-1B by pikclingoil on Thursday December 19, 2024 @02:51AM (#42459373)
>One fifth as much as the lowest-paid American??

Quite! A top 10% earner in Finland, a supposedly very developed country, by saving all of their net-income spending zero on food and letting their SO pay the bills, could in 2-3 years afford a new Skoda.

Re:Updates to H-1B by qmr on Thursday December 19, 2024 @04:32AM (#42459881)
Ah I think I see where the confusion lies.

The US is not a developed country, rather it is a particularly rich third world country.

Re:Updates to H-1B by CalRobert on Thursday December 19, 2024 @05:39AM (#42460230)
They don’t call them europoors for nothing
Re:Updates to H-1B by sofixa on Thursday December 19, 2024 @07:23AM (#42460770)
Yes, Aerospace Engineers don't live in London because there are very little (if any) aerospace jobs in London. Biggest aerospace employers in the UK are BAE Systems and Airbus, and both have factories in much cheaper locations (Wales, Northwest of England).

You're basically comparing "super specialised job in the middle of nowhere with very low cost of living" vs a "super specialised but much more needed job in multiple high cost of living locations" (Seattle metro area, LA metro area to name a few).

Re:Updates to H-1B by stonemetal12 on Thursday December 19, 2024 @10:19AM (#42462238)
Wichita Kansas is home to about 20% of aircraft-manufacturing workers in the United States. Not exactly known for HCOL.
Re:Updates to H-1B by dccoolgai on Thursday December 19, 2024 @08:36AM (#42461243)
The U.S. engineer can be fired on a whim immediately and lose their health care (COBRA) and the company that fires them can even contest their unemployment benefits (that the employee paid into) if they feel motivated enough. That's one of the reasons they get paid much more.
Re:Updates to H-1B by titanomachy on Friday December 20, 2024 @12:57AM (#42468662)
I’ve been fired before by a major American tech company. I was underperforming, unmotivated, and depressed about it. They gave me a substantial severance payment in exchange for quitting voluntarily, and for signing an agreement that basically said I wouldn’t sue them. They let me pick my last date, they paid my health insurance through the next three months, and my manager told me I could use my last month of employment to find a new job. I was quickly hired into a better-paid position at another company, with a better manager, and I did well there.

I realize this story sounds absurd to anyone who hasn’t experienced it, but my understanding is that this form of firing (“managing out”) is basically the norm for low performers at top-tier tech companies.

To get actually fired, you usually have to fuck up big time, like sexually harassing a coworker, stealing trade secrets, or trying to start a union. (That last one is a joke, sort of)

Re:Updates to H-1B by chipsrafferty on Friday December 20, 2024 @12:21PM (#42472932)
lol, it's not specific to aerospace it's all software. Only the US overpays us
Re:Updates to H-1B by sgerenser on Wednesday December 18, 2024 @09:21PM (#42457726)
I feel like that range is a on the high side, at least for jobs outside the Bay Area. Unless aerospace pays a lot better than software jobs at government contractors. When I was laid off less than 2 years ago and applying to a wide variety of places, the gov contractors were only offering in the $120-$140 ballpark for senior sw engineering positions. They tended to play up gold plated benefits, high 401k match, etc as well but there’s no way that would get it up to $263k.