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Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by zdragnar on Saturday December 14, 2024 @08:30PM (#42420791)
As an American, I'm at a loss trying to figure out when phones started being allowed in school.

Back in my day, all electronics had to stay in your locker except your calculator, including pagers, personal organizers and for the very few kids who were wealthy enough to have one, phones as well. This would be about the time that Motorola and Nokia were selling giant bricks that they called phones.

Edit: and no, school shootings had nothing to do with the change. We'd gone through Columbine not long before, and despite the media spamming everyone they're very rare even today.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by warner25 on Saturday December 14, 2024 @11:39PM (#42421488)
> trying to figure out when phones started being allowed in school

I was a high school senior in 2003-2004, and my dad gave me a phone to use that year, and I think most of my classmates had one too, but I don't actually remember there being any problem or policy about it. I assume that's because phones were just phones at the time, and who were you going to call during class? I don't think I even sent or received a text message until a couple years later.

By 2011, when my wife started teaching in a public high school, it was the wild west with phones. The school policy gave her the authority to take them away during class, but then she was responsible for documenting and safekeeping them, so she didn't bother despite the constant distraction as kids openly looked at them during class.

The capabilities and market penetration grew so fast that I think most schools were just caught off guard, trying in vein to implement rules after the phones were already in every kid's hand.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by Izkata on Sunday December 15, 2024 @01:12PM (#42424914)
I was around the same time as you, and I think the official rules for my school were simply that you can't use them in class. Exact repercussions left up to the individual teachers. Most didn't care unless it disrupted the class or was during a test, and a favorite for the class-disruption case was to answer the phone for the student and embarrass them.
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by ubj on Saturday December 14, 2024 @08:39PM (#42420825)
Also as an American, my experience was that the majority of high school students didn't care about the rules on phones. I attended high school when Motorola Razr flip phones were the hot new technology, and kids used them in class all time. People learned how to do T9 texts without looking so they could slip their hand into a backpack or pocket during class. There were even ringtones high pitched enough that adults typically didn't hear them. All of this under the threat of phones being confiscated if caught.

I'm not defending the use of cell phones in class. But there have to be more effective ways to reduce their use among students rather than simply banning them.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by DaSHacka on Saturday December 14, 2024 @11:29PM (#42421461)
> But there have to be more effective ways to reduce their use among students rather than simply banning them.

Arguably those have all been tried, and don't work.

I think it's not hard to imagine why algebra may be less captivating than a constant short-form-video dopamine stream for an adolecent.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by bdangubic on Saturday December 14, 2024 @08:50PM (#42420872)
rare as in 1,200+ in the last 4 years… https://k12ssdb.org/all-shootings

that’s about 1,200 more than parents worry about anything else

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by quantumfissure on Saturday December 14, 2024 @09:35PM (#42421065)
Please keep in mind, these lists are usually completely arbitrary and have very loose definitions of "school shootings", based around the usual theatrics of security and terror theater.

Some examples that have been on these lists in the past:

- A school resource officers firearm that accidentally went off when a child hugged around his waist. No injuries (there are other questions, but doesn't qualify in the same way)

- An empty .22 casing found in a random school parking lot, probably fell out of a car or got caught in a boot or similar.

- A gang fight at 1am on a Saturday near to school property.

- My personal favorite: The two schools closest to me that showed up on one of the lists (Everytown, I believe?) because the police were dealing with an active robbery situation about 1/2 mi away and they asked the schools to go into lockdown. Apparently "lockdown" immediately and only ever means schools shooting.

- 2/3rd of school shootings that NPR couldn't verify happened.[1] [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-sch...

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by basisword on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:00AM (#42422980)
>> Please keep in mind, these lists are usually completely arbitrary and have very loose definitions of "school shootings"

While I get your point, I think when you have to be concerned about how 'school shooting' is defined your country has a big problem.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by bdangubic on Sunday December 15, 2024 @01:12PM (#42424915)
amen :) when you start weeding through thousands of things to find “silver lining” you have already lost (US has lost all sense of protecting our children a long time ago and it is nonsense like this that is poisoning people’s brains in defense of 2nd amendment (err gun lobbyists…)
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by Izkata on Sunday December 15, 2024 @01:17PM (#42424948)
Their point is how much media hysteria hypes things up, and people from other countries accepting that distorted view of the country as normal here.
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by zdragnar on Saturday December 14, 2024 @09:31PM (#42421047)
And the vast majority of those are accidental, drive by, and "escalation of dispute" per your link. These are not the kinds of shootings that parents want kids to be texting about, these are run of the mill gang activity.

The mass violence shootings that you hear about on TV where anyone and everyone might be a victim are the exception, not the norm.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by bdangubic on Saturday December 14, 2024 @09:35PM (#42421063)
guessing you just might not be a parent yet…
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by zdragnar on Saturday December 14, 2024 @10:20PM (#42421227)
When you live in a city with lots of crime and there's a shooting in the parking lot of the school at one in the morning, it's not really something that needs an urgent text from the kids.
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by bdangubic on Saturday December 14, 2024 @11:22PM (#42421439)
I definitely agree. If my kid went to school in south side chicago I’d get bored getting texts 291 times per day, yea
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by zdragnar on Sunday December 15, 2024 @10:02AM (#42423764)
I think you've missed my point.

Yes, I want to know these things happen.

No, they are not such an emergency that my kid needs to be taking time from class to text me about it.

Most schools in areas with lots of crime or gang activity have metal detectors and other security at the doors. Violence is happening off hours, or between gang members either off campus (but close enough to warrant bringing people inside) or at the edges.

In a country with hundreds of millions of people, a thousand over four years is not exactly a rounding error given that it is concentrated in a few areas, but still close enough that the vast majority will never experience it in their lives.

Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by bdangubic on Sunday December 15, 2024 @01:16PM (#42424936)
this is a good thing I can talk to my kid about… there’s this Earth and on this Earth there is this Country where based on number of people that live there vast majority will not experience being gunned down in what should be 2nd safest place you can be. no other country on Earth has these issues, even ones that are 5x+ size of this one. But you know, statistically speaking you should technically be OK…
Re:School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improve... by tptacek on Monday December 16, 2024 @12:41AM (#42428253)
Don't let me ruin this for you but shootings inside CPS schools are extremely rare.

https://www.chds.us/sssc/data-map/