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Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by Al-Khwarizmi on Saturday December 07, 2024 @04:39AM (#42348496)
There is a lot of middle ground between "brushing it off" and cancelling a whole election and throwing the choice of millions of voters to the trash.

In Spain there are violations of campaign laws all the time (and I'm talking by major traditional parties) and they are investigated, but typically the outcome is a fine, or maybe some jail time in severe cases, not invalidating a whole nation-wide election. And I suppose it's the same elsewhere because otherwise we would see news of invalidating elections left and right. Shady campaign financing is not exactly uncommon across the world.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by egeozcan on Saturday December 07, 2024 @07:20AM (#42349296)
> There is a lot of middle ground between "brushing it off" and cancelling a whole election and throwing the choice of millions of voters to the trash.

If you cheat in elections, the results cannot be accepted in any way. Involving shady, undeclared capital in elections is simply cheating and outside influence. It's a big thing, because we leave the governing of the countries to the elected.

Democracy only works if it the results cannot be bought. And while this is never 100% the case anywhere, such blatant disregard for the laws cannot be accepted slightly.

People can vote again, and you lose some money and time to redo the elections (and if people keep voting for the same people after knowing how they came to power, then all is good).

For me the line is very clear because I see it get muddies in Turkey (where I come from) so many times and could see the dire consequences.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by Dalewyn on Saturday December 07, 2024 @08:38AM (#42349763)
>Democracy only functions if the outcomes cannot be bought.

Then by definition absolutely every democratic country/society does not function, because guess what: It takes truly stupid amounts of money to win an election. Ergo, you need to buy the election.

Every single candidate and party and reform movement who have argued for removing money from democratic politics have all lost/failed without a single exception. You absolutely cannot win an election without money, without buying it.

The only saving grace is that the guy who spends the most money doesn't always win.

We can go on for years about how it's stupid you need money to win an election, how the amount of money is despicable, how the world is unfair. Whatever: We aren't living in ideal dreams, we're living in the brutally unfair and practical reality.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by egeozcan on Saturday December 07, 2024 @09:41AM (#42350099)
Yes, you need stupid amounts of money to win, and I see that as normal in capitalist countries given how significant winning is. However, there's also an obligation to disclose the funding sources so people can decide whether they agree with them.

Some may downplay the importance of this, but I see it as absolutely crucial.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by rayiner on Saturday December 07, 2024 @05:25PM (#42353336)
It poisonous to say elections are “rigged” unless you can prove votes were manipulated. Otherwise you’re opening the door to wide ranging grievances to second guess election results. By your logic, the U.S. should have redone the 2020 election because U.S. intelligence agencies pressured Facebook and Twitter to suppress information that could have hurt Biden. Do you really want to open the door to claims like that?
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by danicriss on Saturday December 07, 2024 @07:14PM (#42353932)
There are a few seemingly minor details missing from the conversation above: - his support seems to have come exclusively from externally coordinated online campaigns - his support increased dramatically within the last 2 weeks before the election

Supporting point 1, remember that he declared zero campaign expenses and never explained how he ran his campaign

Regarding the second point, the urgency under which his campaign took off and the proximity to the elections allowed him to elude mass-media scrutiny. A lot of shady details were unveiled since he became popular, which arguably would've made him unpalatable for a lot of his voters

ISW has a fairly good synopsis of the findings from the Romanian secret services here: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/likely-kremlin...

If you want a comparison to the US political situation, this is not your "Twitter did something shady which bumped Trump's result by 2 percentage points"

A better translation is: Chase Oliver wins the White House! (If you wonder who that guy is, Google him - that's what Romanians had to do with CG after the election night; he was on the ballot and you didn't even know it). All while declaring zero expenses. NSA and CIA suspect foreign interference. His only campaign was on TikTok. Looked eerily similar to Ukraine, Georgia (the country) and Moldova's Russian influence campaigns. He eluded TikTok's swarming detection algorithms. He was unknown until late October - the campaign started in earnest 2 weeks before Halloween. Oh, and he actually looks like RFK jr., talks like RFK jr., just didn't have the same notoriety going into the election

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by egeozcan on Tuesday December 10, 2024 @01:46AM (#42374423)
> It poisonous to say elections are “rigged” unless you can prove votes were manipulated

The votes were grossly manipulated through undisclosed funding. This would cancel the results in any democratic country.

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by exe34 on Sunday December 08, 2024 @07:19AM (#42356720)
> Democracy only functions if the outcomes cannot be bought

but if a South African gave away $1M a day to support his candidate in the US, would that be foreign interference?

Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by extraduder_ire on Sunday December 08, 2024 @07:32AM (#42356762)
Is this South African also a US citizen? I think that matters.
Re:Romanian court annuls result of presidential election fir... by exe34 on Sunday December 08, 2024 @08:24AM (#42356981)
he was an illegal immigrant, but he bought his way to citizenship. would that make a difference?