Perhaps the East Germans, Czechs, et al remember Soviet brutalization?

And let's remember that attacking Ukraine was utterly illegal, without a semblance of moral justification, and carried out utterly barbarically.

And let's remember that in 12 June 2020 Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program.

If the west had not flirted with Ukraine, so many lives wouldn't have been sacrificed.

Would Ukraine be a drone state of Russia ? Probably. It is naive to think that a tiny country next to a superpower can be independent.

Is the current outcome more favourable for anyone, including the Ukrainians ?

Are you saying that laying down stops the rapist?

That is such a juvenile, emotion filled and provoking response. I am not even going to reply.

I am sorry you cannot view this in a detached, logical manner.

And how do you get peace when Russia's only stance is to conquer? Let them take whatever they want?

You get peace by not trying to introduce Ukraine to the western sphere of influence.

>when Russia's only stance is to conquer

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria

> Libya, Syria

It's hard to take people like you seriously if you claim these 2 conflicts are western attempts to conquer. Care to elaborate?

It's kinda insane that the stuff that used to be reserved to be screamed by unkempt people at street corners is "mainstream" on the Internet nowadays...

And what does peace look like? It reads like you're using the word as synonym for "surrender".

Okay, I’ll bite. What is peace, in this specific case?

Remember how all the peace offers stopped Hitler and fascism from conquering Europe? No? Because they didnt. Weapons and materiel did.

Wow, downvoted to hell just for mentioning the word peace. The brainwashing lefties are subjugated to in the last years seems to be working exceptionally. Until just a few years back, this would have been one of the top comments.

You should study some recent history. One place for you to start would be to look up "Appeasement" on wikipedia

It seems that someone has convinced many of you (on HN) that negotiations with Russia would inevitably lead to an attack on NATO countries within Europe. As a result, some now feel justified in mocking or harassing those who believe that continuing a seemingly unwinnable war—at the cost of thousands of European lives—is not the best course of action. Ironically, this stance was widely held by left-leaning individuals not long ago.

What disgusts me isn’t the fear of a potential Russian attack, but how easily people can be manipulated into reversing their beliefs while still considering themselves morally righteous, and feel justified into mocking and silencing people holding their past ideology.

> Until just a few years back, this would have been one of the top comments.

People have had the time to learn what the "peace" they are offering to the victims of aggression means in practice.