News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by graeme on Monday November 18, 2024 @07:09PM (#42178717)
But where is the consumer benefit?
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by michaelt on Monday November 18, 2024 @07:31PM (#42178893)
Much better privacy protection and ad blocking.

There's really no rational reason for third-party cookies to still exist. The only reason they're still around is because an advertising company's browser has like 97% market share.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by graeme on Monday November 18, 2024 @08:13PM (#42179161)
>Much better privacy protection and ad blocking.

The order doesn't mandate that. It mandates google SELL the data it has collected on people to third parties.

There are also privacy focussed, ad blocking focussed alternatives trivially available on the market....and people are not choosing them.

Any company which buys Chrome (Microsoft?) will have just as strong an incentive as Google to track people and run ads.

FWIW, Chrome has a 66% market share: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share

======

Disliking a company doesn't justify any arbitrary policy against that company

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by N19PEDL2 on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @02:56AM (#42180951)
> Microsoft?

It already owns Edge. I would rather bet on Meta or Amazon.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by mupuff1234 on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:08AM (#42181011)
I'm gonna place a wild bet on Musk.

There's no way Meta or Amazon will (/should) be allowed to buy chrome.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by MikeHolman on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:41PM (#42187874)
I think Meta would make the most sense. Funnel people to facebook, instagram, etc. Get all that juicy tracking data and boost additional ad revenue.

Doesn't really seem like much of a win for consumers though... it's just trading one personal data hungry megacorp for another.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by shiroiushi on Thursday November 21, 2024 @06:55PM (#42209910)
I might make some sense. However, not everyone uses Facebook or Instagram; it's not quite like Google where just about everyone uses some of their services, if not many.

I suppose it would help Meta greatly expand their ad business, to places far beyond FB/IG.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by Arainach on Monday November 18, 2024 @08:10PM (#42179142)
The same cookies that Google tried to eliminate but couldn't get traction from anyone else?
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by dmix on Monday November 18, 2024 @08:21PM (#42179215)
Which in itself shows 3rd party Cookies will only marginally make the internet more privacy friendly.

That would have been nice in 2014 but in 2024 the big ad industry is ready.

The only ones who will hurt the most are the ones without tie ins to authentication systems like Google auth or FB auth or apple ID etc.

Although I'm sure theres plenty of mega databases which don't need overt auths to ID a user. And contextual ads work just fine.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by pseudalopex on Monday November 18, 2024 @09:23PM (#42179528)
Google tried to replace 3rd party cookies with new tracking. Other browsers blocked or isolated 3rd party cookies without new tracking.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by rtpg on Monday November 18, 2024 @08:52PM (#42179382)
consumer benefit is not the end all of antitrust.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by PittleyDunkin on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @12:18AM (#42180283)
What would you say is the end all of antitrust if not consumer benefit?
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by diffeomorphism on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:33AM (#42181174)
About seven different things. The whole oversimplification that it has to be one single thing has been a drift in policy (over a few decades) in combination with trying to rewrite history books. The fact that you are even asking the question that way shows how successful that rewriting was.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by PittleyDunkin on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @06:31PM (#42189205)
I am just trying to record what you think "antitrust" means. What do you think should be recorded? What history do you think is being rewritten?
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by diffeomorphism on Wednesday November 20, 2024 @01:27AM (#42191275)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

Start with the Sherman act and then see that "what antitrust means" has had a long, changing history. By the way, the European understanding of antitrust still includes harm to competition as well, which often pops up on HN (e.g. how does Facebook's action harm consumers? That was not the question!).

Yet, you have lots of people in this thread claim that we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by graeme on Monday November 18, 2024 @09:28PM (#42179559)
This is from the DOJ's page on the Clayton Act, where they give two statements of purpose for the antitrust law.

>This law aims to promote fair competition and prevent unfair business practices that could harm consumers. It prohibits certain actions that might restrict competition, like tying agreements, predatory pricing, and mergers that could lessen competition.

>The Antitrust Division enforces federal antitrust and competition laws. These laws prohibit anticompetitive conduct and mergers that deprive American consumers, taxpayers, and workers of the benefits of competition.

Both are aimed squarely at consumer benefit. Restrictions on anticompetitive behaviour and mergers *where those things impact consumer benefit.*.

Mergers and actions against competitors are obviously allowed in the normal course of business.

Lots of people have other ideas about what kind of antitrust law they'd like to see, but such a law has not passed the US Congress.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/antitrust-laws-and-you#:~:text=T....

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by rtpg on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @01:52AM (#42180673)
The second one points to taxpayers and workers as well. This is especially important when it comes to antitrust action regarding workers rights. Actions which could lead to worse consumer experiences (at least if you consider price to be the end all)

“Taxpayers” is an extremely broad category as well, though you need an appetite for it to argue through that clause.

Though I think you can easily make a consumer argument for Chrome being unbundled (competition for Chromes default search engine pick)

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by sdenton4 on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @02:58AM (#42180960)
...and competition is going so well in the browser market. The dedicated browser businesses (mozilla, opera, etc) are all tiny and/or struggling mightily. All of the biggest browsers are side-projects of larger tech firms.

Monetizing browsers requires either subscriptions or (further) enshittification of the web experience. Forcing /market/ competition into the space will not be great for consumers, IMO.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by rtpg on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @06:32AM (#42182315)
Perhaps the fact that large companies can subsidize their browser operations through their huge war chest and large presence on the web or in the operating system space is indicative of them using market power to crowd out competition and make paid offerings less sustainable!

Perhaps some antitrust action would help with this.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by RandomThoughts3 on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:13AM (#42181039)
> prevent unfair business practices that could harm consumers. It prohibits certain actions that might restrict competition, like tying agreements

So, it's plainly written - ations don't have to actually harm consumers, the fact they could do so is enough - and the key criteria is that they might restrict competition.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by blackqueeriroh on Wednesday November 20, 2024 @01:45AM (#42191347)
> Restrictions on anticompetitive behaviour and mergers where those things impact consumer benefit..

You paraphrased incorrectly. The correct paraphrasing would be, “Restrictions on anticompetitive behaviour and mergers where those things deprive consumers of the benefits of competition.”

Competition is the heart, NOT consumer benefit.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by pianom4n on Monday November 18, 2024 @09:34PM (#42179589)
It literally is
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by cratermoon on Monday November 18, 2024 @09:26PM (#42179550)
It has been since the Reagan era, but before that antitrust law had teeth
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by o999 on Monday November 18, 2024 @10:36PM (#42179896)
Wouldn't consumer like it if they could use Google services on any browser with the same experience without having to give up other browsers? I use firefox mainly but I have to use Chrome when I use Google Meet because Google provide more features and better performance when you are on Chrome (intentionally, not because of other browsers limitations)
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by makeitdouble on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @02:53AM (#42180933)
More future competition and innovation.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by mupuff1234 on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:03AM (#42180989)
In what? How to extract more personal information from the consumer and sell more ads?
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by chaxor on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:16AM (#42181054)
Perhaps if chrome finally fails people will move to better things, like servo https://github.com/servo/servo.

It would be nice to have a completely open source browser that can be built with a simple one liner from cargo. Having several thousands of eyes on the code daily to check for telemetry violations, privacy issues, security, and performance daily in mostly a single language, small, and well structured browser repo would be phenomenal compared to the disjoint jumbled messes we have today.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by melodyogonna on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @03:25AM (#42181123)
Better for who? I use Chrome because the experience has been the best for me.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by chaxor on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @10:29AM (#42184532)
As indicated by the explanation, better for people who believe in FOSS rather than closed corporate software.

Most developers work with a Unix mindset (do one thing well, with focus on simple and easily managed code), which tyically means telemetry is _wildly_ out of line (offers no real benefit for the basics while adding huge complexity), so privacy and security are naturally far better. Lynx like TUI browsers are a nice idea, but unfortunately sometimes an image is desired to be manually viewed, or javascript is required. It would be wonderful if javascript were simply dropped from most websites, but we don't live in that world, so we're stuck with the next best thing (disabling all js until explicitly allowed by the user).

These are the types of things people in software devs typically care about, which there are many in HN.

Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by mulmen on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @05:18PM (#42188704)
Best of what’s available. There’s no way to know what innovations were squashed by Google’s dominance of the browser market.
Re:DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome by mulmen on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @05:15PM (#42188691)
Innovation. Google has no competition and so has no incentive to innovate for consumer benefit.