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Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by djtango on Sunday October 27, 2024 @10:16AM (#41962774)
Composers have very distinct styles my teacher would joke Mozart adored the triad, Beethoven the octave and Chopin the tenth.

A fun game I like to play myself is "guess the composer". I think I shocked my friend the most when I watched West World with him and after seeing the intro only once I guessed correctly that it was the same composer as the Game of Thrones intro.

Sometimes I second guess myself too much between late Mozart and early Beethoven but I think most the composers have their own hallmarks.

Chopin in particular was quite idiosyncratic because his piano writing was fairly innovative. He came up with a lot of new ways to play the piano and his polish influences and focus on salon music is very distinct

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by pubutil on Sunday October 27, 2024 @11:16AM (#41963182)
If you haven’t already heard of it, you might enjoy the Piano Puzzler podcast[0]

“Bruce Adolphe re-writes a familiar tune in the style of a classical composer … [someone calls in and] listens to Bruce play his Piano Puzzler™. They then try to do two things: name the hidden tune, and name the composer whose style Bruce is mimicking.”

Of course, you can play along at home as you listen.

[0] https://www.npr.org/podcasts/381443927/performance-today-s-p...

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by sho_hn on Sunday October 27, 2024 @12:33PM (#41963780)
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by HERMANOPRIMERO on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:44PM (#41964241)
This reminds me of Hidden Melody from an old British quiz show that I loved as a child: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_the_Music_(British_game....
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by djtango on Monday October 28, 2024 @02:43AM (#41968336)
Thanks for sharing this - very fun!

Reminded me that nowadays I listen to less classical music than I did so a modification of the game I enjoy playing with myself is "guess the influencing composer". For example I hear so much Prokofiev influence via harmonic language in the early Harry Potter movies and I was listening to Rachmaninoff the other day and thought "oh gosh that reminds me a lot of Kingdom Hearts" and did a quick check and lo and behold Yoko Shimomura cites Rach as a major inspiration. Similarly I often hear shimmers of Ravel in Masashi Hamauzu

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by Jabbles on Sunday October 27, 2024 @12:40PM (#41963825)
Is the joke accurate in this example? Are there many tenths?
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by eitally on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:31PM (#41964163)
Yes, and it can be quite a stretch when playing. Similar to Rachmaninoff in terms of "reach" (but absolutely not in style).

(Am pianist, too.)

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by fsckboy on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:07PM (#41963993)
>Chopin in particular was quite idiosyncratic because his piano writing was fairly innovative

I bow to your superior knowledge, just want to add for the poor shlubs who are even dumber than me:

Chopin was not simply a composer, but a virtuoso piano player, and i guess because of that he wrote what he wrote for the piano; in contrast to say Mozart who performed at the piano but mostly composed for orchestras, etc.

And the periods of time were different wrt, when Chopin was active, Mozart, Beethoven et al's music innovations already existed, along with larger audiences to play for, which created Chopin's niche

or something like that, i'm not a music guy

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by Synaesthesia on Sunday October 27, 2024 @02:22PM (#41964496)
Mozart, Beethoven, Bach and Brahms (as well as many other composers) were all virtuoso piano or keyboard players.

Chopin is unusual in that he wrote almost exclusively for the piano.

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by gmueckl on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:15PM (#41964868)
My understanding is that when writing for an orchestra, a composer needs to adjust to the orchestra's skill level and likely err a bit on the easy side for good measure.
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by tolciho on Sunday October 27, 2024 @05:01PM (#41965643)
Most composers, most of the time. Beethoven, on the other hand, refused to rewrite portions of the Ninth that were maybe too high for some to sing, and you can probably find difficult instrument parts if you chat to, say, Bassoon players.
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by dbalatero on Sunday October 27, 2024 @06:24PM (#41966177)
Heh to quote Beethoven (from: https://brooklynrail.org/2007/07/music/third-party-beethoven...):

> As practice gradually moved away from this insular model, and standing, virtuoso quartets replaced ad hoc groups as the chief vehicles of chamber music performance, Beethoven’s compositions became increasingly experimental (and daunting). Legend has it that when Ignaz Schuppanzigh—a well-known Viennese violinist and Beethoven supporter—complained about a particularly difficult passage in one of the Op. 59 quartets, the master retorted, “Do you suppose I am thinking about your wretched fiddle when the spirit moves me?”

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by rectang on Sunday October 27, 2024 @07:25PM (#41966522)
If you write a piece that "plays well", a player can play it well — and give a more compelling performance. What makes a piece "play well" isn't necessarily that it be "easy"; more that it be natural and idiomatic for the instrument... which will in turn be easy.

If you write a piece that a player struggles to play, that will sometimes come through via a muddled and strained performance. There are famous exceptions that prove the rule on this, such as the extremely high register opening bassoon passage from Rite of Spring through which Stravinsky intended to convey strain, or the trumpet squeals of Ray Nance at the end of many Ellington arrangements.

Generally, though, you want the players to be able to play your piece well. And "err on the easy side" is an effective way to do that, especially when writing for instruments you aren't personally an expert with.

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by fsckboy on Sunday October 27, 2024 @06:19PM (#41966148)
maybe I don't use the words right, but go to each of their wikipedia pages and search for the word "court". You will see that Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven depended much more heavily on the favor of the various noble courts, while Chopin and the later Brahms were more commercial (not in a bad way, just in a historical way)
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by djtango on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:34AM (#41967909)
Chopin was special because he wasn't bounded by the orthodoxy - Chopin was so prodigious as a child and had mostly surpassed his teacher in virtuosity as a mere child. His teacher made the excellent decision that he shouldn't prejudice Chopin with preconceived notions of piano technique so Chopin was free to develop his own way of playing from young through his formative preteen and adolescent years.

Wiki entry on his teacher:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_%C5%BBywny#:~:text=....

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by thruway516 on Monday October 28, 2024 @07:07AM (#41969850)
I think what they're saying is in the times of Mozart, Beethoven etc you would not have been able to survive exclusively or mainly as a composer for piano. A career like Chopin's was only possible later on when music and the arts in general was more established and composers didnt live or die by royal patronage and the odd subscription concert here and there. Chopin is unusual in comparison to those earlier composers but not really unusual for his time. Liszt is another contemporary who wrote mainly for piano and there are probably at least few other lesser known 'specialists'(none of which come to mind alas)
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by bongodongobob on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:09PM (#41964000)
Check out Emmit Rhodes. My only music conspiracy theory is that he was a ghost writer for Paul McCartney. The musical similarities are absolutely uncanny.
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by tunesmith on Sunday October 27, 2024 @02:23PM (#41964502)
There was a time when I was rather good at guessing the composer from hearing a snippet of music I hadn't heard before. We had a group exercise where I had a streak going of guessing correctly every time. Then our instructor tricked us by playing a snippet of a Chopin Concerto that didn't have any piano in it. :)
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by djtango on Monday October 28, 2024 @02:13PM (#41974265)
Love this story. Especially because Chopin often gets flak for his orchestration of his Concertos. Don't suppose you remember roughly where in the music the snippet was?
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by BriggyDwiggs42 on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:42PM (#41965057)
Oh wow I had no idea westworld and got were the same guy! Both themes were very noticeably a cut above; that totally explains it.
Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by yongjik on Sunday October 27, 2024 @06:10PM (#41966081)
Another thing to remember is that the piano was very much an instrument being developed during Mozart and Beethoven's time. There's a reason why most of Beethoven's sonatas don't utilize the uppermost and lowermost part of the modern piano: he didn't have those keys then.

So, in a sense, these composers weren't writing for the same instrument.

Re:A Chopin Waltz Unearthed After Nearly 200 Years by ericmcer on Monday October 28, 2024 @12:10PM (#41972715)
If you play piano much you definitely develop a "style" to your improvisations pretty quickly. It is probably some combination of your nature, what you played early on and what you listen to. Anytime I fiddle around on the piano I fall into a sort of default pattern and everything I do sounds similar to me.

Makes me think that a way for a popular artist to do something "new" would be to take a year off and just play music from artists with a totally different style to theirs. After the year they could attempt composing again and maybe their internal style would have been updated.