Ever have your phone or laptop not hold the charge it used to when you first bought it? The same thing happens to car batteries. This certainly doesn't help with people's range anxiety.

I'm on the sideline waiting for the battery tech to improve a bit more before buying my next (electric) car.

As an aside, I'm horrified by what new privacy invasive "features" these cars will include in all electric cars.

Data is a bit light on the ground given we haven't had masses of EVs for all that long. But I wouldn't necessarily have this expectation based off of phones and laptops.

EVs have really high-end battery management systems and cooling, which will have a huge impact on battery life.

Heck even my phone is lasting better these days with just better software battery management in Android. My current oneplus 9 is going on three and a half years old and hasn't notably degraded in battery life. Whereas I'm pretty sure I remember all my previous phones having noticeable battery degradation after a year or so.

>Ever have your phone or laptop not hold the charge it used to when you first bought it?

While true, the analogy is bad. The phones (and to some extent laptops) are notorious of the overcharge. The Li-Ion (cobalt) normally should be charged to 4.22V or so. Tool batteries usually do not go over 4.18V. Yet, the phones are happily pushing 4.35V - which provides longer life per charge initially, plus a proper planned obsolescence later.

EV do proper battery management AND cooling.

At the very extreme end, Apple Watch batteries have a 3.87 V nominal and 4.45 V end of charge voltage. Most lipoly pouch cells would turn into a balloon trying to do that once.

> I'm horrified by what new privacy invasive "features" these cars will include in all electric cars.

My main horror with EVs, particularly Teslas is putting everything on a tablet display in the middle.

Its like it was designed by some kid who's never driven a car.

Its a safety issue, frankly. IMHO.

In many U.S. states using a cell phone while driving is illegal under distracted driving rules. It should be the same for touch screens of all kinds.

> Generally, EV have the reputation of requiring much less maintenance.

I'm sure you could generate a maintenance figure for EV that was lower than ICE if you wanted to. But I doubt that figure would be significant, maybe 10-15% if you're lucky.

Why ? Well, let's face it, an EV is still a car. So you still have 99% of the same old things ... tyres, brakes, shock-absorbers, windscreen, windscreen wiper blades, washer fluid, AC gas etc. etc. etc.

And then, of course, if there are problems with your EV battery, or its time for an EV battery replacement, then that 10-15% saving goes out the window. :)

You’re heavily oversimplifying things. If you look at some random Volkswagen or BMW service plan - it’s always about engine. Oil, belts, chains, spark plugs, air filters. Parts optimized for a profitable quick replacement at a dealership. Easily 600-900€ yearly with today’s prices.

There are also gazillion things to fail and to be repaired. Sensors, hoses, cables, alternator, fuel lines, clutch, exhaust system. All these parts were replaced in family’s petrol cars during last years.

I doubt, that today’s Teslas will have battery problems. They have enough knowledge for volume production. Expect 2% early battery capacity degradation though.

> an EV is still a car. So you still have the same old things ...

No, an ICE has a very complex drivetrain with thousands of moving parts. Belts, transmissions, gears, fuel filter, oil seals and gaskets, batteries (ICE's need them too), spark plugs, fuel pump, fuel injector, alternator, radiator and water pump, catalytic converter, etc etc .

Brakes also wear slower on EVs since regnerative braking captures some energy.

Electric motors themselves are far more reliable and simpler than ICE motors.

Those "complex parts" (engine and gearboxes) usually only require yearly oil changes and replacement of minor parts as you mentioned (spark plugs, plug wires, belts, tensioners--maybe injectors every 100kmi) for the first quarter million miles. At 10kmi/yr that's 25yr.

The complexity as defined by parts count doesn't have much practical impact on TCO.

That said, my BEV is currently in service due to the charger shorting out for some reason. Not sure which came first, but the battery cable harness also got damaged and had to be replaced.

A quick change once the parts arrived they said. The car is still under warranty so won't cost me a dime, but if the bill they presented me with is real and not some "medical bill" shenanigans, the charger alone would be 1/8th the price of the car as new, total repair cost 1/5th...

So yeah, still some expensive parts that can break. Was quite happy with very little maintenance costs so far, but if that price was real and charger breaks after warranty is out, the whole value proposition is quite different.

since you mention the radiator, the EV needs quite the cooling as well; although I do agree for the most part. The electric motors are a lot simpler than even a small engine lawnmower.

> batteries (ICE's need them too)

I've replaced a few ICE batteries in my time. You can replace them at home in 5 minutes and they are a gazillion times cheaper than an EV battery. :)

> ICE has a very complex drivetrain with thousands of moving parts. Belts, transmissions, gears, fuel filter, oil seals and gaskets

This whole thing about ICE is FUD IMHO. Yes, complex, but on modern ICE vehicles is highly-reliable.

Also I would argue with EVs you are replacing ICE "complexity" with other complexity. For example, in EVs you now have individual motors on four wheels (i.e. potentially four points of failure), you have all the software in EVs etc. etc. etc.

I would also argue that the ICE "complexity" of what you speak is NOT where the bulk of ICE maintenance costs come from. Afterall, topping up the oil and replacing gaskets is kids work.

The bulk of ICE maintenance will ultimately be the same as EV maintenance, i.e. all the wear-and-tear parts I listed already, such as tyres.

Most EVs don't have four motors on each wheel. They'll have one or two.

It also depends a lot on what type of ICE we are talking about. A very high power output downsizing engine with two turbochargers, direct fuel injection, EGR, intercooler, electric oil pump(s) (for turbo cooling), variable valve timings and/or lift systems etc. -- what you'll typically find in a high trim ICE mid-class car -- has far, far more parts and experiences a lot higher stresses than e.g. the naturally aspirated port injection engine you might find in a city car.

I suppose the reply was not meant to be a direct response to my comment?

It's not 99% of the same things, you have cherry picked.

There's many studies comparing the cost, I've never see any that put the saving as low as 10 to 15%, 50% is a more common figure.

Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty.Batteries developing problems and needing to be replaces is not really a thing.

> It's not 99% of the same things, you have cherry picked.

No, I have not cherry picked.

Because the remaining 1%, topping-up oil, replacing gaskets, belts etc. is simply not where the bulk of ICE maintenance costs come from. This sort of stuff can be done cheaply and easily by your local garage.

The bulk of the ICE and EV maintenance costs is the same, the stuff that gets exposed to the wear-and-tear of the elements, i.e. your tyres, your windscreen, your shock-absorbers etc. etc.

An EV does not make you immune to getting nails in your tyres, chips in your windscreen, cracks in your shock-absorbers etc. ....

> Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty

As with most things of this nature, I would be interested to see the wordings of such warranties, particularly the exclusion clauses. :)

> There's many studies comparing the cost...

And if we exclude studies funded/conducted by the EV companies or others with vested interests ? :)

> your tyres

i've heard, not 100% sure if true, that EV tends to push the tyres harder, as they accelerate harder. This means tyres lasts for less for an EV.

> that EV tends to push the tyres harder, as they accelerate harder.

I would think the regen breaking might also put wear on the tyres, especially for those people who like it set in the more aggressive modes.

It’s the driver. BMW tires and brakes do not last long too.

> Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty

A ten year battery warranty means most used car buyers would be without a battery warranty. My current car was 12 years old when I got it, and in basically pristine condition. Good ICE cars are very durable in a way that the batteries in EVs simply aren't.

> 99% of the same old things ... tyres, brakes

Aren't brakes one shared system where electric vehicles have an advantage? With the widespread use of regenerative braking, most of the energy of motion is bled off without friction on wear parts. EVs still need brake discs and calipers to maintain a full stop (particularly on an incline), for emergency braking, and as a failsafe, but the parts should experience much less routine wear.

Additionally, your list omits the entire exhaust system, which is full of components that can foul up or corrode. Combustion exhaust gasses can be pretty corrosive stuff, particularly when combined with water condensation on short trips/cold days.

Used EVs tend to be quite expensive for now, at least in EU. But it's certainly also affected by supply/demand, there are simply not that many used EVs for sale yet.

And at least in case of Teslas it's mostly the higher models in higher trims, since those are the ones the early customers bought.