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Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by mtlynch on Friday October 04, 2024 @05:15AM (#41739442)
>So we decided to design the most generous buy-out package possible, we called it an Alignment Offer: if you resigned before 20:00 UTC on Thursday, October 3, 2024, you would receive $30,000 or six months of salary, whichever is higher. But you’d lose access to Automattic that evening, and you wouldn’t be eligible to boomerang (what we call re-hires). HR added some extra details to sweeten the deal; we wanted to make it as enticing as possible.

Mullenweg doesn't explain when the offer was announced, but the earliest I can imagine is the Monday after he blocked WPE customers from accessing wordpress.org, which would mean employees had a max of four days to consider this deal. If it was after the WPE lawsuit, then employees had less than a day to consider it.

For comparison, when Basecamp did this in 2021, they originally had a deadline for the offer but extended it indefinitely.[0]

It's interesting to compare the way DHH presents the buyouts to the way Mullenweg does. Here's DHH[1]:

>Yesterday, we offered everyone at Basecamp an option of a severance package worth up to six months salary for those who've been with the company over three years, and three months salary for those at the company less than that. No hard feelings, no questions asked. For those who cannot see a future at Basecamp under this new direction, we'll help them in every which way we can to land somewhere else.

DHH's explanation of the buyout feels gracious and that he genuinely wished well to the employees who accepted the buyout.

Mullenweg explaining his buyout just feels like a petty tyrant purging anyone who won't pledge loyalty to him. He highlights the tight deadline and the immediate shunning of employees who take the deal. He uses the word "enticing" as if the employees who accept the deal are the weak-willed ones who succumbed to temptation.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22418208/basecamp-all-hand...

[1] https://world.hey.com/dhh/let-it-all-out-78485e8e

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by photomatt on Friday October 04, 2024 @06:36AM (#41739987)
This was more generous than both the Basecamp and Coinbase buyout offers, I'm curious why you say I'm a petty tyrant. I can be a little ASD so sometimes my written communication doesn't come through the best.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by batch12 on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:06AM (#41740545)
It looks to me like passive aggressive lynch mobbing. Putting the issues aside, you seem to be doing a good job not letting the comments that charge you with medical and psychological issues get to you.

Figured I'd throw at least one positive comment your way.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by kyleee on Friday October 04, 2024 @10:33AM (#41741854)
“passive aggressive lynch mobbing” maybe, just maybe, you are overstating
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by batch12 on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:45PM (#41743192)
I don't care about wordpress or this situation. I may be, just maybe, being too generous. Somehow people feel it's proper to question someone's sanity, provide armchair legal advice, and even suggest carbon monoxide intake is involved. Maybe people should be a little self aware of their critiques of others. Maybe.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by bdndndndbve on Friday October 04, 2024 @07:52AM (#41740442)
My guy, I know lots of autistic people. You're not coming across as autistic, you're giving straight up Napoleon marching into Russia with this one.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by photomatt on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:43AM (#41740813)
Thank you for the feedback. I'll try to do better.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by HaZeust on Friday October 04, 2024 @06:11PM (#41746002)
Start now.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by MikeDVB on Saturday October 05, 2024 @02:05AM (#41748024)
Start last week, last month, or even years ago.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by sureIy on Monday October 07, 2024 @06:23AM (#41764553)
Stop fighting WPE if you actually want to do better.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by mtlynch on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:30AM (#41740712)
>I'm curious why you say I'm a petty tyrant.

For the reasons I gave in that same paragraph.

I agree that you made more lucrative offers than Basecamp, but they presented their offers (publicly, at least) in a way that feels more professional and respectful of their employees.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by randomdata on Friday October 04, 2024 @10:25AM (#41741780)
So what you're saying is that Matt is a tyrant because he isn't as an effective communicator as DHH is? That's quite an unusual take on tyranny.

Or perhaps that's not what you are saying at all, but are just a poor communicator yourself? If that's the case, I am surprised you are not more sympathetic to the folly of interpreting such statements without other context. Dunning-Krueger effect strikes again, I suppose.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by mtlynch on Friday October 04, 2024 @11:28AM (#41742424)
I said that Mullenweg's explanation of the buyout makes him come across as a petty tyrant.

I didn't say that poor communication is what qualifies someone as a tyrant.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by randomdata on Friday October 04, 2024 @11:37AM (#41742528)
There is no objective measure of what makes a tyrant. If one comes across as a tyrant, they are a tyrant!

You did say, as interpreted by the reader, that his poor communication skills makes him come across as a tyrant, and therefore that is what makes him a tyrant.

That may not be what you meant, but in that case we're right back to you and the poor communication skills of your own.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by mtlynch on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:00PM (#41742749)
It feels like you're bending over backwards to misinterpret what I said, so I'm going to stop engaging with you.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by randomdata on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:13PM (#41742864)
I appreciate your interpretation. I too am a poor communicator, so I had no expectation of you interpreting it in line with my intent, but I am a bit saddened that I did such a poor job that it seems you didn't even begin to pick up the main point of the folly of trying to interpret statements absent of full context.

But perhaps you did and that realization frightens you. That would explain why you have decided to tell us that you are running away now. Logically, if you were just bored of the conversation you'd simply stop replying. Clearly something has gone haywire in your thought process for you to think it is necessary to share that you are going to stop.

Or maybe I'm just not grasping what you are trying to say. Such is the risk of dealing with those who are not good communicators.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by flaminHotSpeedo on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:25PM (#41742981)
They stopped engaging because you seem either unwilling or incapable of understanding the difference between personal attacks and criticism of an artifact.

To try and take the emotion out of it, it's the difference between saying "I am tired" versus "this comment I wrote makes me sound tired"

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by randomdata on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:48PM (#41743213)
What personal attacks are you referring to? There are no personal attacks found anywhere in this thread, nor would there be any logical reason to bring emotions into it at all.

But perhaps I have failed to understand what you are trying to say? Such is the trouble with communication.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by flaminHotSpeedo on Friday October 04, 2024 @02:24PM (#41744156)
The whole point of this thread is that you're defending what you perceived to be a personal attack against Matt (calling him a tyrant) and the other poster was trying to explain that it was not, in fact, a personal attack.

So if you agree there's no personal attacks, I guess that settles things!

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by randomdata on Friday October 04, 2024 @02:40PM (#41744301)
I made no suggestion that calling Matt a tyrant was a personal attack. Nor would I ever consider it to be. It is nothing more than a relaying of information about the state of the universe. There is no conceivable situation where pointing out that someone is a tyrant is an attack. That makes absolutely no sense.

But that's not what we were talking about anyway. The entire discussion has been about how communication is hard. Which I guess is what you have set out to prove by showing us that you have no clue as to what is going on around you. But I already established that communication is hard right from the very first comment, so what, exactly, do you think you are giving us by this live demonstration of what we already know?

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by hluska on Friday October 04, 2024 @01:19PM (#41743476)
Matt, I’ve had a lot of respect for you for a long time. But you have an employee on Reddit trashing every single person who left en masse.

https://www.reddit.com/user/r_mutt1917/

I understand that things get emotional and things happen. Especially in business. If you’re looking for perfection, you will not find it in me.

But, this is extreme. It’s tremendously unkind and terribly unprofessional. The worst part is that they claim they can’t tell what division they are in. It leaves the impression that trashing > 100 people is fine, but being identifiable is a problem.

Can you please do something about this? We can part ways with people, feel sad about it but not destroy their lives.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by biggneer on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @04:53PM (#41781718)
That user deleted their comments, but they're still visible at this link, which reads them from an archive of Reddit: https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Wordpress/comments/1fvl9aa/wo...

Also at: https://archive.today/nsBjE

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by senadir on Friday October 04, 2024 @07:42AM (#41740362)
The offer had no limits (someone who was at the company for 2 days took it). Matt was also willing to continue sponsoring visa for the 6 months for whoever is on an work visa.

This was a very distracting 4 days, I'm glad it ended quickly, the dust is settling now, and we're slowly going back to work.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by legitster on Friday October 04, 2024 @11:41AM (#41742573)
I think it's incredibly naïve to think that it's over now. The legal ramifications of what Automattic has done have not even started to set in motion.

Also, as a longtime WP user, my understanding of the product is... pretty different now to say the least.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by senadir on Friday October 04, 2024 @11:50AM (#41742651)
The whole drama is not done, but the colleagues and friends leaving all at once is done, and that was stressful, you don't know who's leaving next until you see their name.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by legitster on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:06PM (#41742797)
To OP's point, I don't think the provided buyout window was long enough to determine that. If a bunch of other shoes drop, like more stuff comes out of discovery with the WP Engine lawsuit, knowing that you only had 4 days to accept or GTFO might still leave a bunch of on the fence employees.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by lolinder on Friday October 04, 2024 @12:09PM (#41742825)
Yeah, there will definitely be more departures. If there aren't more voluntary departures then as the legal costs mount I would expect to see layoffs. Matt isn't looking to settle.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by photomatt on Friday October 04, 2024 @06:35AM (#41739973)
It was posted on September 30 ~10pm UTC, so people had about 4 days to decide.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by mtlynch on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:54AM (#41740895)
If it was posted Monday, September 30 at 22:00 UTC and the deadline was Thursday, October 3 at 20:00 UTC, that's less than three days.

It's 2 days, 22 hours.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by jfdndbqirncnx on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:42PM (#41746826)
He’s a PHP dev, you can’t honestly expect him to be able to count.
Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by xnorswap on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:26AM (#41740682)
Being made to make that kind of decision in such a short time clearly isn't fair.

In many jurisdictions it would be an unfair contract.

To then say "Look at how many people didn't take up the offer so they clearly support us" despite such a short notice on the offer makes a mockery of the company and it's leadership.

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by MOARDONGZPLZ on Friday October 04, 2024 @08:43AM (#41740806)
> In many jurisdictions it would be an unfair contract.

Can you talk more about this? What jurisdictions? Is an unfair contract a legal term?

Re:159 employees are leaving Automattic as CEO’s fight with ... by xnorswap on Friday October 04, 2024 @09:03AM (#41740970)
I'm not a lawyer, but there is the concept in English law of duress which can invalidate contracts that had undue pressure.

My point was a broader one not a legal one, that the company is acting in a manner that is hostile to a good work environment, putting up this kind of life-changing decision with only a few days to decide and then trying to paint decisions to stay as being a champion of the current direction.

That's treating your workforce with contempt.

Make the same offer with 30 days notice and see how many stay.