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Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by photomatt on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @10:31PM (#41726796)
Automattic employs ~100 people that work full-time on WordPress.org. I can appoint them into positions on WordPress.org, if I think that's appropriate.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by flutas on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @10:49PM (#41726880)
> Automattic employs ~100 people that work full-time on WordPress.org. I can appoint them into positions on WordPress.org, if I think that's appropriate.

So are you now using company resources for personal projects (as they point out, you constantly have claimed that the .org domain is your personal domain) as well as for non profit org projects?

Doesn't exactly sound... beneficial to investors interests.

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by LordAtlas on Thursday October 03, 2024 @12:08AM (#41727304)
Matt is leaving so much evidence against himself that he's practically doing opposing counsel's job for them.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by cdolan on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @10:54PM (#41726910)
So wordpress.org is effectively for-profit

Why did your legal officer today post in a blog post that its a non-profit?

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by fhfhfhjfnfnfmf on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:02PM (#41726962)
What blog was this?

Matt’s agents post in so many different places it’s hard to keep track.

Edit: found it. Wow. This guy has the worst lawyers. https://automattic.com/2024/10/02/wordpress-trademarks-a-leg...

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by function_seven on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:55PM (#41727236)
I love how he explains that “consideration” was conjured from thin air.

I own a car. I want to drive my own car on weekdays. To accomplish this, I give my car to Jimmy, and he promises to let me use it on weekdays?

Using the same analogy as in that post, apparently this is a valid contract with “consideration” because I gave Jimmy my car and, “in return,” he gave me my car back Monday–Friday.

I’m no lawyer, but I can’t imagine that it is illegal to donate a noncommercial license to a nonprofit organization, without contracts and considerations coming into play. But if I’m wrong, and “consideration” is a required element of a transaction like this, I don’t think this wash-sale version of it would pass muster anyway.

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by neltnerb on Thursday October 03, 2024 @01:33AM (#41727631)
I also do not get it, I don't know why consideration is even relevant for a donation.

I assume someone wanted to restructure things so that a fully owned trademark was owned by a non-profit instead, with them retaining commercial rights.

Why would either side want to minimize the donation size? It reduces taxes for the commercial company and the non-profit doesn't care about income tax.

I don't know if the site is accurate but it's odd to bring up considerations for sure. I don't see anything immoral or unethical about want to restructure so that a non-profit handles the non-profit stuff.

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by cdolan on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:22PM (#41727064)
You start to wonder if they work for WPE
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by ChallengeEup237 on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:34PM (#41727139)
There are so many legal entities here that appear completely intertwined: The WordPress Foundation, Automattic, Audrey Capital, WordPress Community Support PBC, etc. Conflicts of interest are a problem even if they aren't acted upon. It's going to get ugly.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by jonnypants83 on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:47PM (#41727203)
the statements about the non-profit situation seem especially bad. He'll obviously have his own side of the story, but I'm guessing they didn't misread the tax filings.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by FireBeyond on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:46PM (#41727199)
Right. To me Matt is so so used to using them all almost synonymously that he seems oblivious to the ramifications thereof.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by mthoms on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @10:50PM (#41726885)
Why did you tell the community: "the most central piece of WordPress’s identity, its name, is now fully independent from any company"? That's objectively untrue. Period.

That was 14 years ago Matt. You mislead the community for 14 years.

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by photomatt on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:01PM (#41726958)
The trademark originally belonged 100% to Automattic. It transferred it to the Foundation, and retained the commercial license and the ability to commercially sub-license. The Foundation gave me a license to run WordPress.org. This has all been public, though I agree it's complicated and not widely understood.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by chrismorgan on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:17PM (#41727043)
I’m curious: what else is there to a trademark? Nominal ownership may lie with the Foundation, but if they’ve granted “irrevocable, exclusive, royalty-free rights in the WordPress trademarks right back to Automattic” (as claimed in this lawsuit), what else is there? Maybe there is something, I’m no lawyer or particularly deeply familiar with trademark law, but it sounds to me like, for all practical purposes, ownership belonging to the Foundation is a furphy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furphy>.

(This is an honest question.)

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by johannes1234321 on Thursday October 03, 2024 @02:34PM (#41733504)
I guess one difference is that if the company ceases to exist it falls back to the foundation and there might be classes around acquisition etc.
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by zambiboy on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:11PM (#41727017)
Man you should just stop talking about this online, even less, posting this kind of sh*t that would be used in court. Arent there ANY people around you who can tell you to just keep silent?
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by mthoms on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @11:49PM (#41727212)
I understand the workings of the trademark. The question I asked of you (that you avoided) is why did you claim that the trademark was "fully independent from any company" and that Automattic had "give[n] up control". [0]

That's demonstrably untrue. The assignment on file with the USPTO is clear:

>WordPress Foundation, a California nonprofit public benefit corporation, ... hereby grants to Automattic Inc., an exclusive, fully-paid, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, sublicensable right and license to use and otherwise exploit the trademarks identified in Exhibit A attached hereto...

Why did you lie, Matt?

[0] https://ma.tt/2010/09/wordpress-trademark/

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by FireBeyond on Thursday October 03, 2024 @02:49AM (#41727928)
> The Foundation gave me a license to run WordPress.org.

The Foundation? You mean, you, a retired, inactive coder (as far as I could tell, or near enough) and oh yeah, one of those "freeloading leeches", as you described Private Equity... a Managing Partner, in fact?

Weird that you never mentioned that this license was granted on the same day it was transferred.

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by InsomniacL on Thursday October 03, 2024 @10:51AM (#41731335)
> though I agree it's complicated and not widely understood

He didn't say it was complicated or that he didn't understand it.

He said it was un-true and it is.

[dead]
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by 2Gkashmiri on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @10:58PM (#41726940)
shh... let him talk. don't scare him off
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by infrawhispers on Thursday October 03, 2024 @01:23AM (#41727581)
You really should stop crashing out on HN - you are practically doing the opposing counsel's work for them!
[dead]
Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by dang on Friday October 04, 2024 @02:50PM (#41744416)
You can't attack others like that here, regardless of who they are or how you feel.

We ban accounts that post this way, so please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: you did it in at least one other place in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41727582. That's not cool. I'm not going to ban you right now because it doesn't look like we've warned you before, but if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by gamblor956 on Thursday October 03, 2024 @02:36AM (#41727877)
Automattic employs ~100 people that work full-time on WordPress.org. I can appoint them into positions on WordPress.org, if I think that's appropriate

So in other words you intermingle for-profit and nonprofit resources for your own private benefit?

Maybe the IRS should be taking a deeper look at WordPress.org's finances?

Re:Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charl... by immibis on Thursday October 03, 2024 @05:27AM (#41728895)
IIRC you can get a substantial 5-figure reward for reporting this to them!