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Re:The Death of the Minivan by gruez on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @12:33AM (#41717203)
>Fuel economy standards should be fixed so that vehicles with truck chassis are treated the same as cars

Subjecting big trucks to the same standards as small cars either makes the fuel standards pointless (as they cater to trucks), or outlaws trucks entirely, which is political suicide. People already pay extra for big trucks, which suggests it's something they intrinsically like, and will oppose efforts to ban them.

Re:The Death of the Minivan by spondylosaurus on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @12:48AM (#41717282)
You're not wrong about how (either directly or indirectly) outlawing trucks would be political suicide, but man, that's a grim thing to think about. The fate of the world hangs in the balance of people whose top concerns include being able to drive monstrously huge cars.
Re:The Death of the Minivan by twiceaday on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @02:00AM (#41717611)
If you want grim realize its the same with guns.
Re:The Death of the Minivan by grues-dinner on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @04:31AM (#41718430)
Guns is just the fate of the US, no other developed country has that problem. This obsession with SUVs and blobby crossovers affects everywhere.
Re:The Death of the Minivan by fakedang on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @04:57AM (#41718582)
To add to that, in Europe I've seen a lot more folks now preferring SUVs because in an accident, many buyers approach it with an "it's better to be alive in your SUV, even if it was responsible for killing the small car passengers" mentality.
Re:The Death of the Minivan by grues-dinner on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @05:15AM (#41718657)
I think the problem is that everyone assumes an accident would be the other vehicle's fault, so they're buying protection against someone else hitting them. In that mindset's hypothetical, the small car is acceptable damage because the small car caused the accident. Again in that mindset, why would you volunteer to die in an accident you didn't cause?

I'm not really sure what you can do to fix it, and anything you could do would be political suicide. I'd like to think if i were in charge, I'd have them banned for urban use by the end of the week, but I'd also be out of office by next Monday.

Re:The Death of the Minivan by david-gpu on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @04:55PM (#41724894)
> Again in that mindset, why would you volunteer to die in an accident you didn't cause?

Because I would rather die than kill. I honestly can't understand how anybody would prefer the opposite. How do you live with yourself knowing that you have killed somebody?

Re:The Death of the Minivan by grues-dinner on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @07:37PM (#41725948)
Firstly there's a lot of people out there, often in inexplicably clean pickup trucks, who have 4-letter words for that.

Secondly, this mindset is also considering at in a collision with a larger vehicle, like a truck, the SUV means possible survival, small car means certain death, and the trucker walks away anyway (no, that's not a guarantee but it's heavily implied by the "big is safe" message). The fate of a hypothetical small car is only a subset of possibilities, and also can be mostly discounted because:

Thirdly, if you are driving an urban tank in order to defend against the bad drivers (you being, naturally, a very good driver), anyone who dies in a crash with you killed themselves. It's your job to defend you and yours (going by SUV adverts, they're very photogenic and adoring) from that brutal recklessness.

I don't think it's complicated psychology, even if I think it's extremely misguided.

Not least, the tank is disproportionately a danger to your own kids, has shit visibility and is probably not as safe in a collision as it might feel, leading to a false sense of invulnerability and confidence to push into dangerous situations.

Re:The Death of the Minivan by proamdev123 on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @09:38AM (#41720533)
Or alternatively, “It’s better for me and my family to NOT be the ones dead in a small car if we get hit by an SUV.” mentality.
Re:The Death of the Minivan by bzzzt on Thursday October 03, 2024 @08:20AM (#41730016)
Maybe for some people a bigger car means safer. While there are some studies that say they are, the smaller EU SUVs are more likely to tip over in case of an accident, don't all have 4WD and are not as heavily reinforced as the big SUVs that are popular in the US. The main selling points seem to be the higher seat (especially popular with elderly people who don't like climbing into a sedan/hatchback) and just having a bigger car than the neighbors.
Re:The Death of the Minivan by prewett on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @10:55AM (#41721252)
If by "fate of the world" you mean the effects of CO2, passenger vehicles are approximately 10% of CO2 emissions [1]. So I don't think that excessively large cars are going to be the determining factor in the fate of the world, and you can cut those guys a little slack.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport

Re:The Death of the Minivan by netsharc on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @07:22PM (#41725853)
All hail democracy!

However terrible single party dictatorships like China is, at least they can build high-speed rail (right over your property they've forced you to relinquish) or force cities to electrify without needing to consider the moaning voters who are resistant to change.

Re:The Death of the Minivan by jordanb on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @09:00AM (#41720136)
They could change the rules that effectively penalize smaller vehicles. They can still have categories but be equally stringent within each category.

The reality is that manufacturers have captured the EPA regulations and are using them to steer the market in the direction they want, and in doing so actually making the environment (to say nothing of road safety) worse.

Manufacturers want more profit per-car. They also want to push the market into categories that have higher tariffs on imports. They don't want to be in the market of compact cars or sedans or even, increasingly, large but lightweight vehicles like minivans so they steer the market and regulations away from these vehicle classes.

Re:The Death of the Minivan by Yizahi on Wednesday October 02, 2024 @09:39AM (#41720558)
At minimum the height of the grill of the trucks masquerading as cars needs to be limited. It's not a big deal except for the less brutal looks and actually meaningful change which won't be political suicide.