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Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by iLoveOncall on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @06:18PM (#41652464)
> Generative video models like OpenAI's Sora clearly have a world model as they are able to simulate gravity, collisions between objects, and other concepts necessary to render a coherent scene.

I won't expand on the rest, but this is simply nonsensical.

The fact that Sora generates output that matches its training data doesn't show that it has a concept of gravity, collision between object, or anything else. It has a "world model" the same way a photocopier has a "document model".

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by svara on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @06:43PM (#41652650)
My suspicion is that you're leaving some important parts in your logic unstated. Such as belief in a magical property within humans of "understanding", which you don't define.

The ability of video models to generate novel video consistent with physical reality shows that they have extracted important invariants - physical law - out of the data.

It's probably better not to muddle the discussion with ill defined terms such as "intelligence" or "understanding".

I have my own beef with the AGI is nigh crowd, but this criticism amounts to word play.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by phatfish on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @07:17PM (#41652881)
It feels like if these image and video generation models were really resolving some fundamental laws from the training data they should at least be able to re-create an image at a different angle.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by some1else on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @08:45PM (#41653370)
"Allegory of the cave" comes to mind, when trying to describe the understanding that's missing from diffusion models. I think a super-model with such qualifications would require a number of ControlNets in a non-visual domains to be able to encode understanding of the underlying physics. Diffusion models can render permutations of whatever they've seen fairly well without that, though.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by svara on Thursday September 26, 2024 @05:14AM (#41656226)
I'm very familiar with the allegory of the cave, but I'm not sure I understand where you're going with the analogy here.

Are you saying that it is not possible to learn about dynamics in a higher dimensional space from a lower dimensional projection? This is clearly not true in general.

E.g., video models learn that even though they're only ever seeing and outputting 2d data, objects have different sides in a fashio that is consistent with our 3d reality.

The distinctions you (and others in this thread) are making is purely one of degree - how much generalization has been achieved, and how well - versus one of category.