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Re:The Engineering of Landfills by barbazoo on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @02:27PM (#41437647)
> I wish more environmentalists would be excited about engineering solving environmental ills and relied less on knee-jerk reactions.

Are many ... not? Seems like a weird complaint, I haven't encountered an "environmentalist" (whatever that even is) that is against landfills in general or the engineering of it. I'd rather we didn't produce as much garbage as we are and I hate that our city makes me wrap my garbage in more garbage otherwise they won't pick it up. But I still find the engineering impressive.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by jonas21 on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @04:15PM (#41438755)
You don't have to look far to find them. Just scroll down in the comments.
Re:The Engineering of Landfills by bko on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @03:47PM (#41438447)
Search google news "environmentalist landfill" and find me one article praising the ingenuity of landfills

https://news.google.com/search?q=environmentalist+landfills&...

Here's one from 3 days ago.

Garbage Lasagna’: Dumps Are a Big Driver of Warming, Study Says

Don't gaslight me and tell me environmentalists applaud all solutions to environmental issues equally. They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/climate/landfills-methane...

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by barbazoo on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @04:31PM (#41438909)
Studies researching the negative effects of landfills are the necessary first step in making them environmentally friendly. How else would we know what to do?

Perhaps whatever you have in mind has to do with people's desire to keep more garbage out of the landfill in the first place? I don't know.

> They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers.

I don't know what that's referring to but where I live, the vast majority of recycling does not leave the province. So I can't really empathize with the example, I'm aware of the trope though. Perhaps this is one of the things that's much different in the US and less so in other places.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by mschuster91 on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @03:28AM (#41442835)
> They have their own solutions, and activists often force things like recycling at all costs, even though it means shipping it across the world on polluting boats and having some other country dump it in their rivers.

That's a side effect of (way too) lax regulations and the externalities of disposing of plastics not being paid for!

Germany and a few other EU countries for example force any introducer of "recyclable" packaging to pay into a system to fund recycling stream collection, sorting and disposals ("Grüner Punkt" [1]). Yes, it's not perfect, way too much of our plastics waste still is exported to poor countries, but the ban on that is already law that will come into force in a few years [2].

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCner_Punkt

[2] https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/plastikmuell-eu-einigt-sic...

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by bittercynic on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @08:22AM (#41444810)
I think the search results are not representative of what actual humans think.

I guess I consider myself an environmentalist, in that it's a relatively high priority to me to avoid causing unnecessary environmental destruction. I regularly take some effort to dispose of hazardous waste appropriately, etc, but I normally don't go around announcing my environmental priorities. It's not that I don't care, it's just that talking about it is usually not much fun, and is unlikely to help anything.

I think my attitude on the matter is pretty common in my area.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by Iulioh on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @02:43PM (#41437782)
Probably OP is thinking of NIMBYs.
Re:The Engineering of Landfills by fsckboy on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @05:05PM (#41439203)
OP is thinking of people who bumper sticker "Believe Science" but never took science beyond grade school or a required "science for poets" class. People who think "chemicals are bad, but organic is good".

These are not bad people, but they don't know what they're talking about enough to form their own opinions, but they don't know that.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by barbazoo on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @05:17PM (#41439317)
That would be quite the strawman but whatever works for them.
Re:The Engineering of Landfills by x-complexity on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @08:36PM (#41440701)
> That would be quite the strawman but whatever works for them.

These types of people exist, and in worryingly large numbers.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by eru on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @12:13AM (#41441841)
See also the German 'Green' party whose policies have led to lots and lots more CO2 emissions over the years.
Re:The Engineering of Landfills by kergonath on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @11:10AM (#41446696)
Also, Greenpeace energy selling organic gas. That’s is very funny until you realise that 1) they are serious, and 2) they vote.
Re:The Engineering of Landfills by barbazoo on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @11:46AM (#41447136)
Do you mean "renewable" gas? https://green-planet-energy.de/privatkunden/prowindgas

I can't find anything about "organic" gas.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by kergonath on Tuesday September 10, 2024 @01:58PM (#41503654)
Sorry, it was vegan gas, not organic. They stopped labelling it that way, obviously, after being thoroughly ridiculed. It’s difficult to find references to it now, but some articles from that time (2020-2022 I think) remain, e.g. https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/decouple/greenpeace-sel...

There might be some traces of it in the Internet archive.

[edit] there are traces here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210209184343/http://www.greenp...

It was prominently on their home page at some point, but I could not find it. I should have saved it.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by aziaziazi on Wednesday September 11, 2024 @10:39AM (#41511808)
I get why people laught at it but let’s not forget anaerobic digestion reactors do produce methane from manure and last centuries oleoindustrie was using tons of cetacean fat, so vegan gaz is not litterally meaningless.
Re:The Engineering of Landfills by barbazoo on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @11:48AM (#41447165)
If you mean "over the last 20 years", then no, they weren't even a governing party between 2005 and 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Federal_Republic_of_Ge...

You're perhaps talking about the downstream effects of sunsetting nuclear energy but even since then, the ratio of renewable energy has only increased. So what do you mean exactly?

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by eru on Thursday September 05, 2024 @09:44AM (#41456556)
Yes, I was (partially) talking about sunsetting nuclear energy, which they had a major part in (though some of that was indirectly).

They are also against fracking, which indirectly leads to more coal burning. Which is worse.

> [...] the ratio of renewable energy has only increased. So what do you mean exactly?

I would look at the CO2 emitted per Joule or something like that. Ie something that puts nuclear and coal into different baskets.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by CRConrad on Monday September 09, 2024 @04:41AM (#41486581)
> > See also the German 'Green' party whose policies have led to lots and lots more CO2 emissions over the years. reply

> Is that actually true?

> If you mean "over the last 20 years", then no, they weren't even a governing party between 2005 and 2021.

You don't have to be in cabinet to influence other parties.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by barbazoo on Tuesday September 10, 2024 @06:39PM (#41506332)
They barely made it into parliament at all most elections, hovering around 5% in 2002 and 2006 and well below 10% after that until 2021. I think you might be giving them too much credit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens#Electio...

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by CRConrad on Friday September 13, 2024 @09:04AM (#41530879)
> They barely made it into parliament at all most elections

You don't even have to be in parliament to influence other parties.

Re:The Engineering of Landfills by lolinder on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @08:06PM (#41440532)
Do you have a specific connection between landfills and NIMBYs, or are you just generally interested in NIMBYs in the abstract?

As a rule we try to avoid putting landfills anywhere near someone's backyard, so it's not your usual hot topic for the zoning committee.