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Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by godelski on Monday September 02, 2024 @06:17AM (#41424157)

  > I was thinking temperature=0, but what more do you need than that?
Temperature isn't a thing exclusive to LLMs or ML. It's a general technique from statistics where you're modifying the variance of the distribution (also see truncation). And as you're aware, temperature zero isn't actually temperature zero.

So say such a thing makes something non-statistical is the same as saying prime numbers don't exist because any prime p * 0 is 0.

  > A white box is a subset of a black box here
No. A white box and black box sit at opposite ends of a spectrum which is just saying how much we understand something. Complexity isn't what makes something a black box, it's our lack of understanding that does. Of course this tends to coinside, but there's plenty of extremely complex things we have a great understanding of, even if not to infinite precision.

Please take your passion and use it to drive you to learn about these things deeper. It's actually the same advice I give to the LLM fanboys who think it's AGI. But trying to dispel that myth without correct information makes it harder. It muddies the waters. These topics are extremely complex and the issue with the ML field is itself a hypocritical claim that it is easy (scale is all you need while calling these machines black boxes). I mean we can talk about the elephant in the room but certainly Von Neumann has said enough.

Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by astrange on Monday September 02, 2024 @07:34AM (#41424521)
> No. A white box and black box sit at opposite ends of a spectrum which is just saying how much we understand something.

So it's a subset, because "understanding something" is a refinement of the state of "not understanding something" - you can just pretend you don't know what's happening in that part of the system and it is now a black box.

Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by desumeku on Monday September 02, 2024 @10:35AM (#41425679)
Semantic word games aren't a crowd-winning form of argument.
Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by godelski on Monday September 02, 2024 @01:59PM (#41427481)
It's worse when you play that semantic game to make your point stronger (changing your original meaning) and willfully misinterpreting the other person. Everyone loves being willfully misinterpreted
Re:Inductive or Deductive? Rethinking the Fundamental Reason... by astrange on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @03:51AM (#41432392)
I don't think the concept of encapsulation in programming is a semantic word game.

Any part of a program can become a black box if you decide it is one (if you can figure out an interface anyway…), and that's good because it means you can swap it out.