> Lol, who ran a correlation analysis between intelligence and IQ to convince you that the "correlation" between the two is high?

Well you can ridicule this statement if you like, but I can suggest a good-faith approach to this question. For example you can trying coming up with a few definitions of what intelligence could be and then look for correlation between this definitions and IQ.

I can go first: intelligence can be reasonably defined as "knowledge and skills to be successful in life, i.e. have higher-than-average income". This definition of intelligence strongly correlate with IQ. There are other possible approaches but all the ones I can think of (e.g. results in math tests) have at least some correlation with IQ.

Now how do you see intelligence? Does it correlate with IQ?

I go in more detail in my other comment but I would imagine this is a definition most people can't get behind.

> intelligence can be reasonably defined as "knowledge and skills to be successful in life, i.e. have higher-than-average income"

I think it just crumbles under light scrutiny. People have higher income for all kinds of observable reasons that don't have to do with intelligence. I have higher income than other employees at the same level just based on where I live.

Intelligence is something that is defined by academics. Surprise surprise that it it measures how people perform in a narrow set of academic skills.

So someone born in Sub-Saharan Africa is almost definitionally "less intelligent" than anyone born in the US by this definition? I would say that this does not correlate well with "intelligence" at all.

No, because many people in Africa have higher-than-average salary in their region. If you adjust the definition to be "higher-than-median", it will be exactly 50%.

A good joke that's not quite a joke: the very existence of Mensa proves that IQ and intelligence are wholly uncorrelated, since you'd have to be an idiot to even associate with those people (let alone pay $100/year in dues).

Mensa is mostly just a club for people who are disproportionately cultural outsiders. A lot of them have the same interests that are harder to come across in regular day to day life.

It's not so much a circle jerk of "we are so smart" as it is a circle jerk of "no one else wants to play SET! with me".

I was a gifted child and in the 1980s before the internet it gave me a community of adults who had a life of the mind and were for the most part professionals, whose experiences I really benefited from a lot from as a 12 year old.

I don’t know if the IQ test (Advanced Raven Matrices) was a useful bar — there were lots of smart people who weren’t in Mensa — but there were enough smart people in it that I found a community of like minded folks. It’s not easy for kid to find a community like that but I did.

Most people think Mensa is full of self aggrandizing nerds but that wasn’t my experience (it varies by chapter).

Mensa probably doesn’t have a purpose today but pre Internet it did, even if by accident. I don’t think IQ is a useful membership criterion due to sheer arbitrariness but sometimes arbitrary groupings of people can work.

I would also say that people who have a knee jerk negative reaction against Mensa are no more likeable than the socially inept segment of the Mensa membership they disparage. They have the same kind of puffed up pride that they dislike.

Why do you feel so strongly justified in holding this opinion? Is it just vibes? Do you have data?

It's not "vibes" but it is a moral perspective, not an opinion informed by data. In particular the total absence of any scientific definition of intelligence makes any "data" meaningless, which is why my comment was a semi-joke, and certainly not an "opinion." When I say Mensa members are dumb I mean it in the same way that Trump voters are dumb. I am not making a comment about overall cognitive ability.

That said, I was being mean because of Mensa's shtick is scamming naive young people. But it's an awful organization which is chock-full of very dumb adults with fully-developed cortices: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/jamie-loftus-...

You have to be ignorant and closed-minded to even consider being a member of Mensa - this is fine for a teenager but not for a real adult. I understand some people are not neurotypical and have trouble finding community (I have schizophrenia, trust me, I get it). But anyone who actually takes Mensa's membership criteria seriously is an idiot, by which I mean "utterly lacking in intellectual curiosity and proudly ignorant about science," even if they're (supposedly) good at trivial puzzles.