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Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by ironhaven on Saturday July 27, 2024 @04:02PM (#41088956)
The hubris of calling your operating system pragmatic
Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by mananaysiempre on Saturday July 27, 2024 @04:05PM (#41088972)
Your microkernel. I expect the intended point of comparison was “principled and pure”, not “unsuitable for general use”.
Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by ArsenArsen on Saturday July 27, 2024 @04:22PM (#41089072)
WDYM? 'pragmatic' here means 'not necessarily purely microkernel-y if very difficult'. for instance, the memory manager is in the kernel in managarm
Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by ecjhdnc2025 on Saturday July 27, 2024 @06:16PM (#41089719)
But this "not necessarily purely microkernel-y if very difficult" interpretation essentially means that Windows NT is pragmatic.

Because this is pretty much exactly how NT came to be the mess it now is.

I wonder if the parent commenter's point is that really, almost any OS design can be called "pragmatic", and therefore stressing it is particularly prideful.

Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by netbsdusers on Saturday July 27, 2024 @06:28PM (#41089777)
NT is no microkernel, nor has it ever been. It has always been monolithic.
Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by ecjhdnc2025 on Saturday July 27, 2024 @06:36PM (#41089821)
You are perhaps missing the point of what I am saying.

But anyway: around the introduction of NT [0] there was clear discussion about how the kernel design was informed by the Mach/kernel boundary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

"Like VMS,[24] Windows NT's kernel mode code distinguishes between the "kernel", whose primary purpose is to implement processor- and architecture-dependent functions, and the "executive". This was designed as a modified microkernel, as the Windows NT kernel was influenced by the Mach microkernel developed by Richard Rashid at Carnegie Mellon University,[26] but does not meet all of the criteria of a pure microkernel."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_NT#Hyb...

[...] the strict distinction between Executive and Kernel is the most prominent remnant of the original microkernel design, and historical design documentation consistently refers to the kernel component as "the microkernel".

[0] which I am old enough to remember as an adult and a graduate -- I remember particular criticism from academics in OS design around the time of NT 4.0, which as I (admittedly hazily) recall relaxed some of the distinctive design because 3.5's graphics performance was too poor and the graphics subsystem had to be moved essentially into the kernel.

Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by tomcam on Saturday July 27, 2024 @05:50PM (#41089585)
Please elaborate
Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by bobnamob on Saturday July 27, 2024 @06:32PM (#41089800)
Doesn’t pragmatic just mean that you’ve knowingly made some tradeoffs that go against the ideal?

Admitting that doesn’t read like hubris to me

Re:Managarm: Pragmatic microkernel-based OS with asynchronou... by kryptiskt on Sunday July 28, 2024 @07:21AM (#41092504)
I don't think it's hubristic to describe what philosophy it hews to. The opposite of "pragmatic" here would be "without compromise"/"principled". They know they are willing to make compromises in the name of expediency, so calling it pragmatic is just a declaration of intent, not a boast in front of the Olympian gods.