News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by woodruffw on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:17PM (#41029243)
That isn't really what I meant :-)

What I meant was that the DNC is still, somehow, a "big tent" party. The plurality demographic within that party is liberal; if you add the next biggest groups on either side you get progressives (left) and centrists (right). The problem the DNC would face in a two-party ticket is that centrists would willingly go for such a split, liberals would be reluctant, and progressives and onwards would sit out of the vote in substantial numbers. Those sit-outs don't matter at the party level, but they do matter in general elections.

(This is true regardless of the social/economic axes used to distinguish the party's demographics internally.)

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by sokoloff on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:30PM (#41029340)
I’m not so sure they’d sit this one out in swing states.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by woodruffw on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:34PM (#41029380)
Me neither, but I know people who would! If I could get them to vote like me, all of this democracy stuff would be much easier :-)
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by Jensson on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:31PM (#41029358)
> The plurality demographic within that party is liberal

Not the European kind of liberal. They are "liberal" in that they want to track the race of everyone in the country etc. So not very liberal at all, in Europe those things are called extreme.

Liberal means individualism, freedom of thought, meritocracy, Democrats are not very into those things, at least those things are not the strongest factions in the party today.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by woodruffw on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:32PM (#41029368)
Sure. I'm talking about US politics; do you do this to Australians too[1]?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by Jensson on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:40PM (#41029432)
The topic is how Democrats compare to politics in other countries, why do you bring up something unrelated?

My point is that the Democrats are very left wing on some issues when compared to the world. Sure not all democrats are as hard into those things, but they are still very into it compared to what is normal in other countries.

So cooperating with Republicans might not be problematic in an economic kind of sense, but given that Democrats are so strongly to the left on other issues its a no-go. That was the topic.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by woodruffw on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:43PM (#41029453)
No, the topic is US politics. I don't think it's even remotely controversial to observe that the US uses "liberal" differently than other countries with less insane politics do.

That's why Australia is being brought up: the way they use "liberal" as a conservative political demographic has as much to do with how the US uses it as European countries do. Which is to say zilch.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by Jensson on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:46PM (#41029473)
I am not criticizing the use of liberal here, I am saying that American liberals are very left wing since it isn't the right wing kind of liberal the rest of the world has.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by lanstin on Sunday July 21, 2024 @10:23PM (#41030357)
I don't get this. Most of the rich world has universal health care, strong unions, shorter work weeks, longer paid vacations, uni seats for most anyone who can benefit, mass transit, even union reps on company boards, birth control, all that sort of lefty stuff.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by smackeyacky on Sunday July 21, 2024 @10:28PM (#41030379)
Outsider here. Democrats are largely regarded as “Center right” outside of the US. I.e not very “left” at all.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by trealira on Sunday July 21, 2024 @10:57PM (#41030513)
I really don't think they'd be regarded as center right anywhere in the world.

People said that the Democratic Party was centrist during Obama's years, during which period many Democratic senators were closer to Joe Manchin than Bernie Sanders in terms of policy alignment.

Today, the Democratic Party today is economically left-wing: they're in favor of funding welfare, pro-union laws, protectionist economic policies (such as tariffs), rent control (not universally), and workplace safety regulations. They're socially left-wing: they're in favor of criminal justice reform (including abolition of the death penalty), racial equity, LGBT rights, a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, and access to abortion.

There's not a thing about them that's center-right.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by kiitos on Sunday July 21, 2024 @11:23PM (#41030651)
It is a pretty uncontroversial and commonly understood fact that the US Democratic party is center-right in the context of world politics.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by wredcoll on Monday July 22, 2024 @12:28AM (#41030935)
The word you're looking for is "meme", as in a commonly repeated opinion that propagates through a population.

It's never been particularly accurate. Anything as large as the modern democrat party is going to have all sorts of opinions, which is one thing a lot of, uh, twitter style opinions, tend to miss. Ocassio-cortez and Manchin were both technically part of the democrat party at the same time, for example.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by kiitos on Monday July 22, 2024 @01:22AM (#41031135)
No, it isn't. And it's not the "democrat party" -- your colors are showing.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by trealira on Monday July 22, 2024 @01:26AM (#41031149)
> uncontroversial and commonly understood

Among whom? In what country would their policies be center right?

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by kiitos on Monday July 22, 2024 @01:34AM (#41031189)
Among everyone? In every European country?
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by trealira on Monday July 22, 2024 @08:36AM (#41033684)
Okay, now I realize you were just trolling me. That's why you aren't specifying.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by bakuninsbart on Monday July 22, 2024 @03:34AM (#41031775)
I've also read this sentiment online quite a few times, but find it rather unconvincing, especially if world politics encompasses more than Europe, the Anglos and Japan.

Left/Right is a pretty rough categorization to begin with, and things we associate with it in a liberal democracy might not hold globally. In China, the left wing of the CCP and other parties is generally regressive, wanting to go back to policies more in line with Mao, while the right-wing is economically more akin to our european liberals, but also socially progressive for things like lbtq rights. In South America, the left wing is usually economically statist and redistributive, but might be rather conservative on some social issues. There's also the whole liberation christianity movement. Japan as a country is way more conservative than the US.

Going back to a US-EU comparison: I think it is fair to describe the Democrats as centre-right on economic policy, especially when it comes to taxation. Outside of the UK, almost all countries in the EU have less qualms about high taxation levels, and it is obvious that a lot of senior democrats are in the pockets of rich donors and Wall Street.

On social issues I feel like it is different though: Open borders and immigration in general is significantly more controversial on the left side here in Europe. Things like being against against voter id is considered cooky by basically everyone. And the US is often leading the way on issues, as can be seen with gay marriage and cannabis legalization.

A simplistic left/right analysis does not do justice to the complexities of voter ideology and policy. In fact, I think the more this kind of analysis makes sense, the less mature the democracy tends to be, as it indicates that people look at it as a teamsport.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by setopt on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @05:44AM (#41044301)
Norwegian here. We consider Democrats center-right and Republicans far-right compared to our parties. Most of the things you listed are supported by most mainstream parties here, even the ones considered right-wing. In addition, both US parties are economically far to the right compared to all major parties here. Our largest far-right party uses the US as a role model for economic policy.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by trealira on Saturday July 27, 2024 @01:46PM (#41088181)
Somehow I missed your comment 4 days ago. Thanks for the counter example. I really didn't think the Democrats would be center right anywhere, but I guess they are in Norway.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by defrost on Sunday July 21, 2024 @10:34PM (#41030405)
> American liberals are very left wing

barely left wing, please.

There's a reason not-America makes jokes about blinkered vision, American Exceptionalism, and Manifest Destiny.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by pstuart on Monday July 22, 2024 @12:56AM (#41031029)
> They are "liberal" in that they want to track the race of everyone in the country etc

The US Census has tracked race from the beginning. America has always been very race conscious.

> Liberal means individualism, freedom of thought, meritocracy, Democrats are not very into those things

Depends on your point of view. There's plenty of examples that refute that, and plenty that show those values challenged in the opposing party. More so, the word is a label, not a credo; the party is a big tent.

There's plenty of issue of concern about the Democratic party but not what you listed. I'm not a party member but find them less objectionable than their opponents.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by kagakuninja on Sunday July 21, 2024 @09:52PM (#41030172)
A variety of media pundits suggest such ludicrous schemes every election year; we have a recent, laughable proposal that Democrats should nominate Mitt Fucking Romney (age 77).

Interestingly, all these unity ticket proposals seem to demand Democrats bow to the whims of centrism with a split ticket; it is apparently perfectly reasonable for Republicans to have a ticket with two far right politicians, such as Trump / Vance.