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Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by wongarsu on Sunday July 21, 2024 @05:26PM (#41028282)
Most countries put legal limits on either campaign spending or campaign duration, or both. That prevents campaign lengths from spiraling out of control and forces campaigns to be a lot more focused (hopefully focused on substance).

The US is one of the earlier modern democracies and as a consequence there are lots of little implementation flaws. And any change is seen as blasphemy against the will of the founding fathers. Many other democracies either had more hindsight available when they wrote their constitution, or were more open to change

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by dredmorbius on Sunday July 21, 2024 @07:10PM (#41029180)
Also, notably, the US Supreme Court has ruled against virtually all attempts at campaign finance reform, with several notable recent cases, e.g., Citizens United.

Others, from 1976 -- 2021: "Campaign Finance and the Supreme Court" <https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/campaign-financ...>

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by ipaddr on Sunday July 21, 2024 @06:00PM (#41028575)
Also gives the people in power control and the ability to block out new messages. No sure it's fair or democratic.

Some countries give tax payer money based on how you did previously which greatly benefits the status quo

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by wongarsu on Sunday July 21, 2024 @06:22PM (#41028778)
> Also gives the people in power control and the ability to block out new messages. No sure it's fair or democratic.

With limited campaigns you usually run with people who are already known and have a long track record that's decently well known. The equivalent of running a Hillary Clinton or a Bernie Sanders. There shouldn't be much new stuff to drag up except their specific policies.

> Some countries give tax payer money based on how you did previously which greatly benefits the status quo

On the other hand if the state doesn't give parties money then the parties are just going to do whatever brings them the biggest donations, leading to a country run by the rich and the corporations. And you can't hand out money regardless of past performance since anyone can form a party at any time.

There is no winning solution here, but giving tax money to parties can be the smaller evil

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by kmeisthax on Sunday July 21, 2024 @06:19PM (#41028762)
This isn't an implementation flaw, this is (arguably) by design. You can't regulate campaign spending or duration without regulating political speech, which is a huge no-no under the 1st Amendment.

I don't actually agree with that argument, of course. SCOTUS has been perfectly willing to go along with "time and manner" regulations on political speech in the past and I don't see why "nobody can spend more than $X or campaign longer than Y days" is forbidden when "nobody can protest the G7 summit" is. The US's free speech extremism has, in practice, turned into a delegated right to censorship. And under current SCOTUS interpretations of the Constitution, the government is equally powerless to stop both speech and private censorship.

The true answer, of course, is that Trump and the donor class have coopted SCOTUS into an instrument of centralized power. SCOTUS is the scorpion[0] that stung the Progressive frog. They make this shit up as they go - free speech for me, censorship for thee. Fortunately, SCOTUS's legitimacy is in the toilet, and that power base can be broken; but it requires Congress and the President act to defang SCOTUS in a way that does not merely shift power. It needs to be distributed again.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by dbspin on Sunday July 21, 2024 @06:56PM (#41029071)
From your lips to God's ears. As a non-American very much staring at tea leaves, I do worry stuffing the supreme court, or removing some of its power is the kind of act that could provoke a complete breakdown in the political system. Republican refusal to participate in the legislature, outright political violence that sort of thing. It's essential to save the democratic process at this point - but perhaps it's naïve to think that ship hasn't sailed. Kind of astonishing to see recent supreme court decisions like Chevron and presumptive immunity, happening with only nominal opposition - rather than say riots in the streets. Seems there's little mandate for radical change, and a democratic victory may simply delay the inevitable.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by NavinF on Sunday July 21, 2024 @09:01PM (#41029928)
FYI most americans don't care about any of this. I suspect you're getting your info from chronically online people and the articles they read.

That aside, if you're interested in US politics you might wanna look at the details of those decisions. Eg, read this section about the case that brought down Chevron deference. You'll see that pretty much any judge or jury would have sided with the plaintiffs: https://loperbrightcase.com/#:~:text=livelihoods%20at%20risk...

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by dbspin on Monday July 22, 2024 @08:07AM (#41033489)
I've read Trump vs US, including the dissent. It's frankly terrifying.

Americans not caring about these issues seems indicative of the media not being fit for purpose - rather than the issues not being existential. I'd argue that the less democratic things get, the more disengaged people tend to become about the details of political and legal decisions. Since they have less influence on them and are already suffering lacks lower down the pyramid of needs.

From Sotomayor's dissent

"Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law. "

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by NavinF on Monday July 22, 2024 @02:49PM (#41038225)
Yeah that's an unfortunate decision and that Sotomayor guy is a good writer, but the decision doesn't significantly affect people who live here and the dissent is not an accurate prediction of the impact. At the end of the day, congress has the power to impeach and elected law makers keep the president in check.

What do you think of the case that brought down Chevron deference? That should be a lot easier for you to analyze. Ie. "NOAA fucked around and found out"

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by dbspin on Monday July 22, 2024 @03:16PM (#41038607)
Associate justice Sonia Sotomayor is a woman. I think perhaps there's some research warranted on your part.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by NavinF on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @12:47AM (#41042580)
And again you ignore the substance of my post. I don't know or care about the gender of the judges. I'll go ahead and leave this conversation. It's like talking to GPT-2
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by kmeisthax on Tuesday July 23, 2024 @05:45PM (#41051289)
So, let me put it in terms people can understand: what is there to stop Biden from having the Secret Service black-bag Trump if Harris loses in November? Or stop Trump from black-bagging whoever beats the Republican that succeeds him in 2028? Or hell, what stops Biden from droning the SCOTUS justices that wrote the majority opinion right now?

According to the Supreme Court, the only appropriate venue for that question is a Congressional impeachment. The only time when it looked like a President was going to be impeached and convicted was Nixon. That's why he resigned. But I doubt that would happen today. In fact, you can blame Democrats for this: they didn't convict Clinton when he was trading sexual favors, even though that was absolutely something they should have[0]. And Republicans refused to convict Trump[1] for holding up Ukraine aid for political advantage or for inciting a riot in the Capitol building. It's like if you couldn't be convicted for beating and robbing someone because you refused to sign the guilty plea.

As for Chevron deference, let us keep in mind that the alternative to Chevron is legislating from the bench. SCOTUS consistently picks the interpretation of the Constitution that assigns the most power to the judicial branch, which they have absolute control over. The ostensible check on this power is Congress writing a new law, but Congress has been hung for over a decade, which means SCOTUS gets to cowboy-code whatever they want.

[0] During the Me Too era of sexual harassment revelations Democrats started realizing "oh wait, we did WHAT back then?!" and recanting

[1] A president so nice we impeached him twice.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by NavinF on Wednesday July 24, 2024 @05:56PM (#41062611)
I'll answer the first part with a question: If Biden black-bags Trump, do you think he will be unpunished? If so, how much do you wanna bet? Same for those other hypotheticals.

> the alternative to Chevron is legislating from the bench

Only when a law is unclear. Interpreting thaw is kinda why these courts exist

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by latexr on Sunday July 21, 2024 @10:25PM (#41030364)
> And any change is seen as blasphemy against the will of the founding fathers.

Anyone who uses this reasoning (I understand you’re not doing so) should immediately be shut up by quoting the inscription on the southeast interior wall of the Jefferson Memorial:

> I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

That’s as clear as can be: to honour the founding fathers’ intention, laws must not remain static.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by wheels on Monday July 22, 2024 @06:04AM (#41032646)
I'd say exactly your argument is why it's hard to make changes.

The US has this pretty weird civil religion where the constitution is the holy text and the people that wrote the constitution are prophets.

Most other countries don't have that. A lot of democracies don't even have constitutions (UK, for example). The US constitution is an interesting historical document, but it's just a collection of laws. There are a lot of things democracies have figured out since it was written. Amendments are basically impossible at this point because the canon is closed and American politics have evolved to make it structurally impossible.

It should be possible to argue that laws should be fluid without appealing to the prophets of the civil religion. You could, you know, just talk about why it's a good idea. Shouldn't that be more powerful than trying to guess what someone who lived multiple centuries ago would have thought about it?

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by latexr on Monday July 22, 2024 @06:20AM (#41032753)
Your comment is confusing. It seemed like you were going to offer a rebuttal but then didn’t say anything that disagrees with my point.

I’m not saying laws should evolve because a founding father said so. I’m saying that people who invoke the founding fathers’ will as a reason to not change laws should be corrected that a founding father specifically said that laws should be fluid.

Yes, invoking the founding fathers is a stupid argument. And in addition to being stupid it’s also wrong. Meaning there’s zero reason to ever use that argument and people who do can be contradicted by their own logic.

Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by wheels on Monday July 22, 2024 @08:04AM (#41033471)
I didn't disagree with your point, just the way you supported it.
Re:Joe Biden stands down as Democratic candidate by latexr on Monday July 22, 2024 @09:25AM (#41034109)
Thank you for clarifying. In that case, I’ll address what I think is the relevant section.

> It should be possible to argue that laws should be fluid without appealing to the prophets of the civil religion. You could, you know, just talk about why it's a good idea. Shouldn't that be more powerful than trying to guess what someone who lived multiple centuries ago would have thought about it?

Yes, you are absolutely right that it should be possible to argue in that way and discussing the merit of the idea should be more powerful than invoking a bunch of dead guys. But unfortunately it’s not. The people who shout about the founding fathers are not the ones you can convince with reason alone. You’re lucky if they pay attention to your whole argument. Invoking the founding fathers is an emotional argument disguising itself as a rational one.

Which is precisely why I’m interested in seeing what would be the reply to “but the founding fathers which you are invoking disagree with the point you’re making”. Though I have no illusions that would fix the issue, people are able contort to into extra planes of existence to not cede their point. Watch Jordan Klepper’s “Fingers the Pulse” segments for examples.