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Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by metadat on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:39PM (#40963387)
Where does all the money go if it isn't being reinvested into the business? Are the massive profits immediately syphoned out by the execs and owners?

It's interesting there isn't a well-known real competitor to Steam (the Blizzard and Ubisoft stores, etc, don't count, because so few external parties publish there).

My gut says the lack of reinvestment could be someone else's opportunity, especially considering many of the longstanding VAC and other quality issues which have persisted on Steam's platform for more than 15 years. However, because of all the necessary catch-up, such an enterprise would be tricky to bootstrap and get to critical mass. Even then, where is the moat?

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by lkramer on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:52PM (#40963466)
There are plenty of competing stores, all of which pales in comparison. I don't know what their secret sauce is, but for me personally what makes a difference and why I keep preferring them is their dedication to Linux as a platform and a general feeling that they are not just driving me towards rent seeking. I know that last bit is slightly absurd, and I can't quite explain, but I think the fact that they are private means their priorities don't just exists as quarterly goals.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by doix on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:11PM (#40963572)
> but for me personally what makes a difference and why I keep preferring them is their dedication to Linux as a platform and a general feeling that they are not just driving me towards rent seeking

For what it's worth, I have the exact same feelings. They provide so much value on-top of just being a store, and it does feel like they take the money and re-invest it into their ecosystem to make it better.

They made gaming on Linux as easy as gaming on windows. They improved the controller situation in games. They do the whole remote-play stuff so you can play local-coop games online. They do the family sharing stuff. They do the steam link stuff. And they don't lock any of it down to their first party offerings. e.g.

* They could have easily made steamlink only work with their set-top box, but they just made it an android app.

* They could have limited the controller bindings and tech to only their controller, but they made it work for all controllers.

* They could have forced you to use their VR headset with steam, but they let you use any headset.

I can't think of any other company off the top of my head that has done something similar.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by GuB-42 on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:38PM (#40963719)
Steam is actually made with their users in mind. So much that they managed to beat piracy. It is no easy feat, you can't beat piracy on price, and it is hard to beat in convenience when all you have to do is download a torrent and run an exe file. Piracy is like the final boss of software distribution platforms, but they beat it.

To play a game, select it on the store, pay (with all sorts of payment options), download (from damn fast servers), and press play, that's all. The game sucks or crash, click a button and you are refunded, no need to be always online just for DRM check (eventually you'll need internet, but you have enough leeway so that it is rarely a problem), ads are very unobtrusive and maybe even desirable (suggesting games you may actually like or announcing sales), they don't usually force an update just before you want to play a game (a much too common occurrence), dark patterns kept to a minimum (or at least subtle enough), generally good software quality (in terms of bugs, broken UI/UX, etc...). You bought a game, it stays in your account, Steam has 20 years of history of not screwing you, and to play it, just install Steam on any PC (it it doesn't already have it), log in to your account, download and play, it is that easy. You can even share games (with some reasonable limitations).

Others just have some annoyance here and there. Some always-on DRM, bugs, dubious UI choices, annoying ads, etc... Only Valve seems to understand the importance of not getting in the way between gamers and their games and do the appropriate amount of effort (which is a lot). Not even in the name of profit, because they understand that it is not worth it, if gamers are satisfied, profits will come. Remember, they have piracy as a competitor, and it is hard to compromise against such a powerful competitor.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:53PM (#40963810)
My guess is that the secret sauce is network effect. People have all their games in their steam libraries, so they want the next game in their steam library too.

They perceive the Steam launcher as something positive that provides them convenience. The network effect also makes it hard for game companies not not be on Steam, allowing Valve to enforce some customer-friendly policies like refunds, further making the platform nice to use.

Epic is trying to break through this by giving away endless free games. All other stores are generally forced upon the player through exclusives (you buy the game on Steam, but you still have to install their shitty launcher-store because the parent company owning the game wants some of the store-platform cake), breeding resentment and further cementing Steam's position.

(GOG being an exception, but they don't have enough major/interesting games to get players to use them as their primary platform.)

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by dangrossman on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:44PM (#40963419)
At $1.3 million per employee in payroll expenses, it seems like much of the profits are being distributed to the employees that work there.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by metadat on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:45PM (#40963425)
Agreed, that's generous. TFA also states Valve still makes $15m/employee

p.s. thanks so much for hnreplies.com, Dan! It dramatically increased the utility of HN for me. Your creation is fantastic.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by awwaiid on Sunday July 14, 2024 @09:07PM (#40964506)
Iiuc the payroll comes out before profit.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by upon_drumhead on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:52PM (#40963470)
GOG is a compelling option for a lot of content. DRM free and a huge library available
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by djhaskkka on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:13PM (#40963583)
I never even considered buying games again until gog.

pay. download. run in dosbox or something. done.

steam is just a crap I refuse to put up with. and that's the store. imagine the drm.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by tokai on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:29PM (#40963682)
Almost all games can be run without steam.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by BlueTemplar on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:02PM (#40963873)
This varies wildly depending on their level of DRM :

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_to_run_steam_games_off...

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by tokai on Tuesday July 16, 2024 @01:59PM (#40978748)
Yeah exactly. Its up to the individual game and not a steam thing.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by blackhawkC17 on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:14PM (#40963947)
Gabe Newell has a nice superyacht. Part of the profits surely went there :)

https://www.superyachtfan.com/yacht/rocinante/

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by metadat on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:27PM (#40964010)
Think he named The Rocinante after the one from The Expanse?

Knowing that a not insignificant part of the thousands I've spent on Steam over the years went to fund that.. isn't a great feeling.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by bobthepanda on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:48PM (#40963440)
There is Epic and Itch.

The problem is that Steam for all its faults is DRM, anti-cheat, and a well functioning store rolled all in one. Most of the alternate stores are bad in one way or another; Epic launched without a cart, and it still doesn’t have user text reviews. Itch had to redo its whole UI after that one bundle they did that had thousands of games in it.

Notably Valve doesn’t really use its position to make competing games. This is an unknown for most publishers, and Epic pretty blatantly pivoted Fortnite to eat PUBG’s lunch after working with them.

If anything the leading platform for competition as an indie store is the Nintendo eShop. Which is probably why the Steam Deck exists.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by Aerroon on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:16PM (#40963604)
There's also Nutaku that's supposedly as big as Steam (they are focused on NSFW games).

Imo Epic is the only competitor to Steam that tries to offer a similar service to Steam. It's just popular to hate on it among pc gamers.

Many people cite a lack of features on Epic's store as the reason, eg no forum feature, but then turn around and decry Steam forums as the worst place on the internet. I don't think the problem is a lack of features (for players, devs have a point), but rather the Epic Games Store isn't cool enough.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by pbhjpbhj on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:04PM (#40963884)
Epic games seems to lack even basic functionality. I just added Win11 as triple boot on one computer, the kids have loads of games already installed from win10 in a tertiary drive ... on the website it says the solution to them not having a facility to tell their installer/launcher which folder to use is to reinstall all the games.

Now, once you open Epic you can ignore it, use Explorer open the game folders and launch the games and they run. So it looks like they literally need a way to change a config file to avoid re-downloading 100s of GB of games.

I find it literally crazy. They even scatter .egstore files around so actually scanning for and adding games to the library automatically should be easy.

Steam makes the same task easy, and why wouldn't it it's pretty rudimentary for an installer/launcher to have a easy way for you to tell it where your downloaded games are.

Oh, and the instructions for reinstalling Epic _launcher_ say to just re- download all your games. They're insane.

YMMV.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by Aerroon on Sunday July 14, 2024 @09:54PM (#40964693)
I agree, but this is a small thing. It doesn't make or break your use of the software.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by bobthepanda on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:56PM (#40963827)
I think that a lot of features on Steam don’t need to be copied, but I think Steam does have a giant moat in terms of actually useful features.

Steam for example, allows user submitted ratings with explainer text. This is huge for online shopping decisions.

Steam Workshop is easy to integrate mod distribution for games. Etc.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by Aerroon on Sunday July 14, 2024 @09:57PM (#40964703)
>Steam for example, allows user submitted ratings with explainer text. This is huge for online shopping decisions.

I don't know anyone who actually relies on Steam ratings/reviews to make purchasing decisions. I've always assumed that rating systems on the platform that is selling you the product are not trustworthy. But then again, I find reviews for media to generally be useless.

>Steam Workshop is easy to integrate mod distribution for games.

That's a developer feature rather than a player one though.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by bobthepanda on Sunday July 14, 2024 @10:36PM (#40964853)
Steam reviews can be useful depending on their content and their general direction, particularly if they mention specific things they do or don’t like, and there are consistent things popping up. Game devs are not flush with money and I’ve never seen a flood of suspiciously positive reviews.

Steam also has the features to do social proof of reviews. The reviews contain metadata about if the person got the game for free, and if you click the profile associated with it, you can see all the games a user has played and their achievement progress, which can help signal if they are a real gamer, how far they've gotten in the game they reviewed, but also how far they get in other games they've played to check that they're not a sock puppet.

This has enough value that Epic displays a star rating that is allegedly user generated, but because it doesn't indicate who is doing the reviews, and there is no text, their star rating is a lot more suspect.

---

Modding support is also a player feature. Official, well supported modding can make or break a game, and Steam facilitates quite a lot in that regard; Nexus, as an alternative, is ad supported and caps download speeds for mods unless you shell out for a premium membership.

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by red-iron-pine on Monday July 15, 2024 @11:30AM (#40968738)
> Steam for example, allows user submitted ratings with explainer text. This is huge for online shopping decisions.

Arguably, it requires an account, and has things like "number of hours played" included in the review.

Far, far more useful than the easily-gamed spam reviews on places like Amazon. Doesn't mean spammy things can't happen, and the aggregate reviews on Steam usually mean what the 14-24 year old demo think

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by metadat on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:49PM (#40963448)
> There is epic.

How is Epic a serious competitor or alternative, then?

Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by bobthepanda on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:57PM (#40963502)
It is one of the most serious, in that it exists, and probably has one of the biggest catalogs next to Steam, which is not true of say whatever Ubisoft or EA is doing. at the very least there is substantial enough catalog overlap that one can price compare.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by JSteph22 on Sunday July 14, 2024 @05:54PM (#40963484)
Steam is like any network effect based business. It's extremely difficult to dethrone when well entrenched.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by infecto on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:06PM (#40963545)
I believe this is largely the case and I would add that there general pro-gamer attitude would make it quite difficult to dethrone.
Re:Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and ho... by lkdfjlkdfjlg on Sunday July 14, 2024 @06:10PM (#40963569)
> Are the massive profits immediately syphoned out by the execs and owners?

Have you actually looked at the numbers or are you just parroting memes? In the numbers I'm looking at some divisions are $1M per employee.