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Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by Aurornis on Sunday July 07, 2024 @10:16AM (#40897897)
> I used to attend a bunch of meetups before the pandemic. But I quickly got disillusioned. Almost every meetup was varying degrees of startups pitching their product. The last straw for me was sitting through a talk at a JavaScript meetup that was by a devrel employee of a startup who literally gave a tutorial for their product.

My favorite local meetups fell to problems like this.

It was easy to filter out the DevRel people trying to advertise. The hard problem was filtering out people who were only interested in presenting something so they could show another presentation on their resume or personal brand website, with no interest in engaging with the meetup.

These people would want to only show up for the one meetup where they got to present. They’d present some simple content designed to make them look good, with little regard to educating or discussing things. They’d often have some excuse for needing to leave quickly after presenting, some times before any QA time.

And they always needed a video recording of themselves speaking. For a while we had these to stream to remote viewers, but if the camera gear wasn’t available they’d panic and spend a lot of time improvising a way to record it with their phone even if delayed the presentation. Getting the recording of themselves speaking was the primary goal, not actually speaking to the group.

After this happens enough times, the core members realize they’re being used as audience props for someone’s career advancement and they stop coming. The meetup collapses.

I hope my local meetup groups can have a little resurgence like this where people are primarily interested in the meetup, not the self promotion opportunity.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by atmosx on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:33AM (#40898355)
Communities without some kind of curation don't survive in the long run. That should be, historically at least, clear by now.
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by tombert on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:05AM (#40898192)
Yeah, it annoys me that a lot of functional programming stuff kind of fell into cryptocurrency startups.

There definitely is interesting enough tech behind crypto, but a lot of these talks end up kind of devolving into why their product is amazing and better than all the other coins and why you should invest in their ICO.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by cachvico on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:14AM (#40898238)
Haskell?
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by hiAndrewQuinn on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:23AM (#40898294)
Cardano?
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by tombert on Sunday July 07, 2024 @02:01PM (#40899258)
Last meetup I saw it was an OCaml meetup.
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by griftrejection on Sunday July 07, 2024 @12:23PM (#40898626)
The solution is simple: vet the talks, vet the presenter, and don't focus on technology that is popular for grifting. Sorry, but I've been to enough JS/TS meetups to know what's happening. But that world is full of marketing and people who want funding. Compare this to a BSD meetup or a 2600 meetup. Nobody's trying to sell you stuff there.
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by 1oooqooq on Sunday July 07, 2024 @12:37PM (#40898689)
this is a problem of the job market.

most celebrated talks are from people well employed for life so they can talk shit at some system or protocol. from upnp to the persistent compiler worm talks.

those folks didn't expect to depend on their resume padding every 3 to 8 months to live.

likewise the people organizing the talks didn't depends on the status sending devRel people to expect sponsors.

this is exactly what doctorow is yapping about lately. but everyone only accept small points of the big picture.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by 1oooqooq on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:43PM (#40900326)
* startups sending devRel
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by bonestamp2 on Sunday July 07, 2024 @01:21PM (#40898978)
It can be a chicken/egg problem. If you run a meetup, you need to meet regularly to create a community and keep members engaged. If you want to meet relatively regularly then you need something to meet about. Sometimes it's hard to get someone to present, so you have to fallback to people who need more incentive to present.

In a perfect world, a great sponsor would provide a free space for everyone to meet and great community members would spend hours preparing amazing content to teach the community something without gaining much for themselves. But, that combination is pretty rare these days unfortunately.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by ssivark on Sunday July 07, 2024 @01:46PM (#40899151)
There seem to be a few obvious tweaks to try:

1. (Apart from the first few meetings, for bootstrapping) presenters must have attended a few meetings before they get a chance to present.

2. No mentions of one's employer / product beyond the intro slide.

There's nothing special about these two suggestions; the general idea is that the organizers ought to be sensitive to what is happening, and responsive in trying to maintain a healthy atmosphere.

Someone trying to organize a meetup might find some helpful ideas in the following book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49766350-get-together

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by eatonphil on Sunday July 07, 2024 @02:22PM (#40899425)
I get what you, and other commenters here, are going for. But getting speakers is still hard in the first place. And as I mentioned in the post, I see high quality talks as 100% marketing. They're just marketing for your engineering team, rather than for your product. I think we'd have trouble attracting the high quality speakers we do today if we set restrictions some commenters have suggested such as attending the meetup multiple times, not mentioning the company, etc.

We're pretty picky with speakers we invite but also quite flexible once we've invited someone we think will be good. I think it's worked out pretty well for the audience and speakers. At least, that is what they all tell me.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by danenania on Sunday July 07, 2024 @02:39PM (#40899525)
I like your approach and think it sounds very balanced. Creating and preparing for a high quality talk is quite a lot of work, so it’s maybe a bit unfair to expect people with jobs or startups to do them for purely altruistic reasons.

A talk that is mostly substance but contains a quick plug here and there has always been reasonable to me. It’s also a lot more effective for marketing than just giving a blatant product pitch, so it should be a win-win.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by bboygravity on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:27PM (#40900214)
Counter point: I've been to Filipino meetups (Raid the fridge) where companies (even traditional/established banks) presented new products and services they'd been trying to launch mixed in with some company history.

They'd talk about the tech used, the difficulties (tech, business, legal, market) encountered and how they worked around those.

It was definitely more than just a sales pitch even when there was some of that at times. A mix of business stories, engineering, R&D stories, law, finance and general company and even country history.

I found it fascinating and overal great. To the point where it felt like a night out to enjoy entertainment. Not just the talks but the social meetup part of it as well. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I found companies there refreshingly open and honest about the way things had gone.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by throwaway2037 on Monday July 08, 2024 @12:36AM (#40902638)

    > more than just a sales pitch
This is a great post. What so many of the developer relations people miss: Don't focus on the sales pitch so much. Focus on a good technical problem that will be relevant to your audience. It's OK to toss your name and product into the mix a bit, but don't beat your audience over the head!
Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by mooreds on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:11PM (#40902302)
That's super lame. I have been organizing for a meetup for years and don't think I've ever run into this.

I guess the easiest way to stop that would be to ask everyone who wants to present to come to at least one meetup before they do so. Would filter these folks out real quick.

Re:A reawakening of systems programming meetups by generalizations on Monday July 08, 2024 @01:47PM (#40907544)
I wonder if a solution is not to try to contain the 'pressure', but to give it a release valve. Instead of trying to detect and push them out, give them a chance to say their piece and make their connections. If they have a reason to out themselves, then they can be contained.

HN does this too - you'll see the ads occasionally for startups, and we're all glad for the 'who is hiring' and 'who wants to be hired' threads. Those are likely containment as much as anything else.