So, really straightforward, in the context of bears eating people, someone implied that a cat will toy with you to death. I asked for evidence that they do this with primates, someone shared an anecdote about deer that isn't relevant to "bears eating people".

I'm not saying primates are exceptional, rather, that the story about deer is irrelevant.

Primate == food; Deer == food

Why would one food be different?

Would you admit that it's relevant to "big cats eating animals"?

Another thing worth noting - most cats like to eat their prey intestines first without caring whether or not it's alive (for pre-digested fiber and other nutrients not common in meat). For larger cats that often hunt by leaping from above and breaking the neck in one stroke the prey will probably be dead, but otherwise they're probably not.

Our cat has only access to a confined (extremely high walls) garden (largely left to grow wild for environmental reasons) due to proximity to a road where people drive extremely badly, and still manages to occasionally succeed at bringing something in, usually dumping it at someone’s feet and going “ok you do it”.

Dont worry, not a violent attack. This is a black bear digging into a girl's kayak as she yells at it. Notice how the bear ignores her pleedings. I have personally shouted at and scared bears (bc, black bears). They do respond. But once they decide you are not a threat, or heaven help you food, they will ignore any noise you make. This girl's high-pitched squeels fall on deaf ears. The fuzzy dog-like intelligent animal becomes a monster.

Fyi, the girl's progressively higher pitch may do well to attract help from other humans, but wont work on a predator. You want to sound intimidating and big, not small and weak. Of course you arent ever going to sound bigger than a grizzly in feeding mode.

5.56mm is a very small cartridge for game that large, and with full auto you will spray wide and in a few seconds have an empty mag. Besides, within 10 feet everything that can go wrong has gone wrong and you will likely get mauled anyway. Large magazine rifles with backup pistols do have a niche in hunting packs of aggressive wild boars in close quarters, but that is an exceedingly dangerous hobby best left to those with a background in door-kicking.

Also, a lot of them disappear on the ice each year.

You also aren’t going to get a fully automatic one as a civilian without a massive amount of paperwork. A military M4 is even less adequate due to the short barrel length.

Typically, a 12 gauge with 3” slugs is the minimum ‘good idea’ big bear defense gun.

45-70 with modern (high pressure) loads, or a 30-06 with heavy bullets (200gr partitions) are also considered good to adequate - at least for Kodiak brown, which is close.

The issue is with shot placement.

Someone successfully defended themselves against a Kodiak brown bear attack with a 9mm because they were lucky and got a great shot through the nasal cavity from 6-8ft away. Albeit with extremely hot ammo. [https://www.americanhunter.org/content/alaska-outfitter-defe...]

do not underestimate how difficult or dangerous that shot would be to make. The shooter had been a hunting guide in that area for 30 years.

The same bear, if the shot was a couple inches higher, would have been able to keep going even if hit with a 12 gauge slug. They have highly armored skulls. [https://www.reddit.com/r/badassanimals/comments/14die7f/kodi...] Males in particular are also used to (and regularly do) literally fight grizzly bears, so are not cowardly opponents.

Many people disappear in that area every year, while armed. Eaten by bears is the presumed cause for a significant portion of them, but no one can tell for sure since the bodies never get found.

The US Air Force used to issue (literal) bazookas to airmen it stationed above the arctic circle as it was the only adequate man portable weapon they had that would consistently and reliably work if they could hit the bear with it.

Because that is not how I would describe the experience. Especially for registered machine guns. Also, it’s $200 except for AOW which is $5.

- Live in a Class 3 friendly state (so no living in California and then flying to Alaska for a trip)

- Form the gun trust (good idea).

- get yourself and any other controlling parties fingerprinted (the special way the ATF wants)

- get passport photos of yourself and any other controlling parties

- fill out the form 4 just right in the esoteric way they need

- then submit it all and wait 6 months to a year for them to return the stamped paperwork so you can actually possess the item. If you did everything right.

- if you messed something up, either redo it and go back to the front of the line, or (if you’re lucky) amend it ASAP when the examiner reaches out to you randomly when they find the problem.

Oh and a beat up but transferable M16 is what, $20-30k right now? More if in better condition?

That may not seem like a lot of paperwork to you, but for most Americans it definitely is. Oh, and you need to carry the stamped form 4 with you in the field, in case a cop runs across you and wants to be sure it’s legal.

Also, way outside the actual use case here, which is something to drag around in wilderness conditions that will make an angry polar bear stop trying to eat you at a moments notice. Preferably that can be abused and mistreated without causing problems too.

Which a $500 pump 12 gauge shotgun you can buy over the counter at any gun store is quite capable of doing very well with decent ammo.

And won’t require a 5320.20 be submitted (and take a month or more to get back to you) if you want to cross state lines.

Also, Canada is generally okay with pump shotguns, not with machine guns (registered in the US or not), and a lot of folks going to Alaska want to be able to drive over the border at some point.

I’m really curious what the odds would be of anyone making a fuss in legit polar bear territory though, hah.

(Apparently, yes I am that kind of nerd too)

As someone that routinely arms themselves against grizzlies and has had hostile encounters where I have scared them off with gun shots, I basically refuse to carry anything smaller than 10 mm with Underwood Dangerous Game rounds, and even that is a tradeoff. There are plenty of stories of people killing grizzlies with smaller rounds, but what there aren't are stories of people shooting grizzlies with very big rounds, and the grizzlies not dying. Whereas 357 magnum, 9 mm, etc, all take a lot of rounds to kill on average. 44 magnum is pretty much "sufficient" and if you go to rifles, center mass from a +P hardcast 45-70 will drop any grizzly in one shot. Even out of an 18" barrel. The Marlin 1895 has grown a reputation among bush pilots for that reason.

These debates rage on endlessly because they're entertaining, but ultimately the human with the gun is 50%+ of the equation...not the gun.

If you actually care to survive, listen to this great talk before heading out to bear country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y

Also, joints make a distinctive noise when being... decoupled. But I suspect the narration may have helped nail down which joint was in play.