News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by sandworm101 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @11:49AM (#40790065)
I am going to hold the celebrations until we are sure there isn't anything else on the horizon. He isn't getting a pardon and being declared free and clear of charges in the US is very difficult. Who knows what state prosecutor might want to bring new state charges. He may also be wanted as a material witness. If I were him I wouldn't set foot outside Australia ever again.
[dead]
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by ralusek on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:29PM (#40790496)
Trump strikes me as far more likely to grant him a pardon than Biden. Biden is neoliberal, which are just as hawkish as neocons (they’re functionally identical). Trump is more of a populist, anti-war, “anti-deep-state” (i.e. intelligence agencies) sort, who has at least entertained the idea of a pardon.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by jasonlaramburu on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:38PM (#40790598)
Trump had 4 years to free Assange but did nothing. He will say anything to get elected. It's surprising how people don't see it. In Texas we call that 'All hat, no cattle.'
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by ralusek on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:10PM (#40790992)
Biden has also had 4 years, I simply said who was more likely to pardon.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by jasonlaramburu on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:53PM (#40792119)
Right and presumably the guy who actually freed him, vs just talk, is going to be more likely to pardon him?
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by nextaccountic on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:30PM (#40790502)
Trouble is, as part of the deal he is headed to an US territory next to Australia, right?

Seems like the perfect place to kidnap him

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by elif on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:35PM (#40790562)
That would be a great way for Biden to blow the election for no reason.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by nvy on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:53PM (#40791441)
I think you're dramatically overestimating the percentage of US voters who give a flying shit about Assange.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by elif on Wednesday June 26, 2024 @07:54PM (#40805871)
Or perhaps you are overestimating how many votes will need to flip
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by drawnwren on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:44PM (#40790682)
Or a great way for Russia to secure it for a pro Russian candidate…
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by Kye on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:58PM (#40790844)
AFAIK the only proven meddling from Russia was stirring stuff up in a party- and faction-neutral way. They were trying to cause chaos, not try and get one party or another elected. Their agents would, for example, organize a protest on Facebook, then organize the counter-protest at the same location.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by drawnwren on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:33PM (#40791181)
I'm not clear what you're arguing against, but you seem to be making an argument about a previous election and not a future one.

Do you believe that Russia benefits equally from the election of either candidate this time around?

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_assassinations

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CaptWillard on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:56PM (#40791479)
Do you believe that's a meaningful metric? Because it's not.

The distinction between Biden and Trump is that Trump is opposed to the machine that's been responsible for decades of disastrous foreign policy, while Biden is the face of that very same machine.

Putin is far from the only foreign leader who would prefer Trump. It's silly to attempt this framing.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CaptWillard on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:29PM (#40791853)
I mean, sorry if you're one of those "electricians on the Death Star" just trying to pay your mortgage, but your downvotes aren't going to put that toothpaste back in the tube.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CalChris on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:34PM (#40791906)
Kim Jong-Un and Xi Jinping would prefer Trump as well.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by af78 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:38PM (#40791252)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

It went far beyond a couple of artificial protests.

Russia did support Trump in 2016 (and beyond), Trump was quite happy about it.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by sandworm101 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:40PM (#40791277)
>> They were trying to cause chaos, not try and get one party or another elected.

But what if the decision is between a stability candidate and a pro-chaos candidate? I think then that Russia would take a side. And I doubt many would debate that one candidate is clearly more pro-chaos than the other.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by usefulcat on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:32PM (#40791891)
Maybe. And yet it did rather work out in their favor.

If you were Russia in 2016, would you have preferred that the next US President be someone competent with significant foreign policy experience, or a Putin-idolizing fool with zero foreign policy experience?

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by oxide on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:07PM (#40790955)
The Cold War never ended and criticism of Russia is not criticism against Russians.

If the Cold War was truly over when the wall fell, we'd have welcomed Russia into NATO. That would have been a huge mistake, as Russia has proven to be antithetical to democracy and an aggressor against the interests of the West, despite dressing up in its skirt.

Instead we've engaged in proxy war after proxy war with very little changing in the best part of 40 years or so. That's no accident.

Suggesting otherwise IMO is to take talking points from the mouth of the Kremlin. I get tired of the "Russia is being bullied by the mean ol' United States" narrative, they're malignant and hostile. I think you're right to raise this point.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by af78 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:26PM (#40791113)
| If the Cold War was truly over when the wall fell, we'd have welcomed Russia into NATO.

This was offered by NATO: Partnership for Peace, NATO-Russia Founding Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93NATO_relations It's Russia that wasn't interested.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by starttoaster on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:40PM (#40791280)
When one of the parties of a "war" elects not to leave that "war", can you argue the "war" ever truly ended, even if one side sent an olive branch?
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by af78 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:09PM (#40791615)
Absolutely. Most Western leaders (though not all) deluded themselves thinking Russia wanted better relations and that all the problems were somehow the fault of the West. Countless confidence-building measures were taken. Most Western countries reduced defense budgets. Russian leaders, ridiculously claiming that they were threatened by NATO, were dishonest the whole time. As the USSR collapsed, Russia surrounded itself with, and fueled, many "frozen" conflicts: Transnistria in Moldova, Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, Nagorno Karabakh in Azerbaijan, Japanese Islands. Gestures of goodwill, escalation management, appeals to political solutions were seen as weakness by Russia. Putin attacked Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014 and 2022 not because he felt threatened in any way, but to the contrary because he thought that no one would do anything about it.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by bastardoperator on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:48PM (#40791373)
I'm pretty sure he spilled the beans, I don't think he has to worry about prison, staying alive is his new main story line.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by drawnwren on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:28PM (#40791136)
Yeah, everyone made this a comment about a specific candidate. But objectively one candidate is pro-supporting Ukraine and one is against it this time around. Regardless of your prior beliefs, Putin benefits far more from a specific candidate this time around.

And they have repeatedly been caught meddling directly in Western countries (see i.e. multiple assassinations in the West).

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by oxide on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:56PM (#40792152)
Exactly. I treat anyone suggesting Russia should be treated with kid gloves with suspicion. The sentiment that they are being bullied is flatly offensive. Russia made its bed in the 90s and complains about lying in it.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by theonething on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:10PM (#40790990)
Oh boy. How about we do just don't have this here?
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by tradertef on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:55PM (#40790802)
ewww.. horrible comment.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @12:57PM (#40790826)
I get that your comment is a hyperbolic jab at Trump supporters but why is a pro-Russian candidate actually bad - besides the tiresome comparisons of Putin to Hitler and similar claims? It seems like NATO didn't disband or let Russia join after it asked to multiple times because we have a military industrial complex that requires perpetual war to sustain itself. Why risk nuclear war over vague political goals like "containment" and "spreading democracy" when engaging Russia in this way will mean Russia is fighting for its survival. Honestly asking because I don't understand.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:38PM (#40791943)
George Kennan (Diplomat, "Architect of the Cold War Containment Policy") - Criticized NATO expansion as a severe mistake in a 1998 interview with the New York Times .

Henry Kissinger (Former U.S. Secretary of State) - Expressed concerns about NATO expansion increasing tensions with Russia over several years, particularly noted in discussions and forums during the late 1990s and early 2000s.

William Perry (Former U.S. Secretary of Defense) - Voiced apprehensions about the strategy and pace of NATO expansion, particularly in the late 1990s during his tenure and in reflections thereafter.

Sam Nunn (Former U.S. Senator, Co-Chairman of the Nuclear Threat Initiative) - Warned of strategic miscalculations and heightened conflict risks due to expansion, prominently during the late 1990s and early 2000s.

Jack Matlock (Former U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union) - Criticized NATO expansion for potentially setting the stage for conflict with Russia, in articles and public lectures, particularly during the 1990s.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by immibis on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @04:31PM (#40793237)
And?
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Wednesday June 26, 2024 @02:57PM (#40803293)
These people were/are credible pro-western. They weren't propagandized by Russian agents to take the stances they took. They were generally opposed to escalating proxy conflict with Russia after the cold war and also generally opposed to expanding NATO eastward. They made credible warnings about pursuing hawkish policy decades before tensions along Russia's border reached their current level.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by taskforcegemini on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:24PM (#40791090)
you would give russia a platform in NATO? I think russian wars with its neighbors speak for itself (and not just with Ukraine) to keep them out. NATO is for instance needed to keep russian imperialismus away from europe. It's also a deterrent against China, North Korea, Serbia etc
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by immibis on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:10PM (#40790989)
Putin is compared to Hitler because he is like Hitler. You are not honestly asking. This, and the rest of it, has been explained to you countless times before.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CaptWillard on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:04PM (#40791567)
"This, and the rest of it, has been explained to you countless times before."

Yes, that's how propaganda works. But in the face of new information, that propaganda has to be tweaked or abandoned. To keep hammering the same message produces quickly diminishing returns.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:02PM (#40791543)
I'm earnestly and honestly asking. Is there some good source material you can point me to that explains how this is in US citizens' interest? All I can find is hyperbolic nonsense that seems markedly similar to the kind of information that was available during the invasion of Iraq. I really would rather feel good about US/Western foreign policy.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by tremon on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:15PM (#40791688)
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

If all source material that you can find is hyperbolic nonsense, then you have made up your mind before looking.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:53PM (#40792111)
Like actually why the fuck would I be pro-Russia? What's in it for me? Seeming edgy or something? Do you assume I'm unable to read the room? I'm a liberal computer nerd from a highly liberal locale. It's obviously so much easier to just agree that the US is bringing democracy or freedom or greater security to eastern Europe. Why would I bother unless it was actually deeply disturbing to me the more I earnestly dig into it? Have I been brainwashed by Russian agents through the internet or something? I am willing to accept this I just don't think that's actually the case upon close inspection.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by immibis on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @04:28PM (#40793215)
Many people are pro-Russia because the Russian government pays them to be. Many others are pro-Russia because most of what they read or hear is from the first group.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Wednesday June 26, 2024 @01:55PM (#40802575)
It seems naive to imply the US has a less effective propaganda apparatus than Russia within its own direct sphere of influence. The idea that a country with 1/10th the GDP of the US outcompetes the US in propaganda delivery on its own pay-to-play media platforms doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally. Seeing any kind of anti-war dissent as influenced by pro-Russian agents seems like low-effort thinking. Being weary of an escalating proxy war with a high-manufacturing capacity, energy-rich superpower that historically has sacrificed large percentages of its population in total war is not inherently a pro-Russian stance; it's a common-sense stance that values life.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by tremon on Saturday June 29, 2024 @04:33AM (#40828721)
It seems equally naive to assume the opposite, given that some people are so eager to dismiss all material against the interests of Russia as "hyperbolic nonsense".
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Monday July 01, 2024 @12:23PM (#40847317)
I'm not eager to dismiss all material against the interests of Russia. I'm highly incentivized to see the Western sphere in a positive light. It's simply difficult to do so given the facts of the conflict at my disposal. What material are you referring to here? I'm motivated to change my opinion on this because the intelligent and sensitive people around me all seem to think the West is doing the right thing and at the very least I want to fit in while maintaining basic integrity.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by cupcakecommons on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:24PM (#40791796)
I haven't, and I'm familiar with this page. I am honestly worried about the US foreign policy. I'm not JAQing off. I want some credible source material from a community I trust. I'm sure other people reading this do too.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by paulnpace on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:08PM (#40790969)
My understanding is that a pardon cannot be granted without a conviction.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by which on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:03PM (#40791550)
Marc Rich was pardoned while a fugitive for much more serious crimes.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by sidewndr46 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:10PM (#40791622)
there is no such constitutional restriction. A pardon can be issued for crimes that are not even known to have occurred or are purely imagined.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by CalChris on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:10PM (#40791634)
Richard Nixon would like a word with you.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by jayknight on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:13PM (#40791664)
You can definitely get pardoned before getting convicted. Trump pardoned Stephen Bannon after he got indicted wire fraud and money laundering, so he never went to trial for that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/05/25/steve-b...

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by plorg on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:26PM (#40791820)
The pardon power seems to be very broad, and is most likely constrained by politics more than by statute. Set aside the idle speculation about a president pardoning themselves, pardons have been granted to whole classes of people for crimes you have yet to be charged with. Consider Jimmy Carter pardoning draft dodgers or Abraham Lincoln pardoning soldiers who fought for the Confederate army.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by jayknight on Wednesday June 26, 2024 @06:24PM (#40805276)
Absolutely. But if we're going to give our president a power that could be used too liberally, it's good that it's the power to let people go free instead of the power to imprison (or worse) anyone for anything he wishes.
Re:Julian Assange Is Free by TeeMassive on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @02:14PM (#40791677)
Assange wasn't pardoned. He agreed to a deal to plead guilty with retroactive detention which meant no additional imprisonment.

A pardon can cover previous crimes with or without conviction.

Re:Julian Assange Is Free by sandworm101 on Tuesday June 25, 2024 @01:27PM (#40791132)
He is getting a conviction. This is a plea deal. He will be admitting to the crime of conspiracy after which he will be a convicted by the court. He will then be a convicted felon and could be pardoned, but I doubt that is really an option. (Not 100% on the felony thing, I haven't seen how this is being charged.)