Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by slowmovintarget on Monday June 17, 2024 @05:44PM
(#40711418)
Dogs definitely have Theory of Mind. There was a study done that placed a treat in a room where the dog was instructed not to eat it. A handler was in the room with the dog. When the lights were turned out, the dogs would eat the treat, because they knew that the human couldn't see in the dark.
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Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by squigz on Monday June 17, 2024 @06:51PM
(#40712090)
Wouldn't another explanation be that the dog thought the human literally didn't exist?
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by slowmovintarget on Monday June 17, 2024 @07:11PM
(#40712260)
No, because the dog could smell and hear the human, just like they could smell the treat.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by squigz on Monday June 17, 2024 @07:25PM
(#40712384)
Haha, fair enough.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by solardev on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @09:31AM
(#40717647)
It's possible the human ceases to exist once the treat is present. The same thing happens to me when there's dessert next to the salad.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by lolinder on Monday June 17, 2024 @07:23PM
(#40712365)
Frankly, as a parent of three I'm not at all convinced that human infants lack object permanence, much less adult dogs. I've never observed anything in my infants that would indicate they lost track of something's existence, and I've seen plenty of things that suggest the opposite.
See also the section of that article entitled "Contradicting evidence".
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by slowmovintarget on Monday June 17, 2024 @09:03PM
(#40713010)
As a parent also, I think it simply varies from child to child. There is a point in time between vision developing and object permanence being learned where peek-a-boo is absolutely magic.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by lolinder on Monday June 17, 2024 @09:44PM
(#40713259)
Peek-a-boo is a ton of fun with infants but I don't buy the explanation that it has to do with object permanence. At the same stage where peek-a-boo is hilarious my kids have also each been perfectly capable of watching me hide something and then going looking for it.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by jprete on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @09:50AM
(#40717853)
OT but maybe peekaboo works on the emotional tension and release of potential threats being revealed as friendly faces.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @01:53PM
(#40730690)
Or maybe it's just a fun game.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by newzisforsukas on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @12:54AM
(#40714184)
Or they tried the strategy in the past, and they had learned behavior that by eating things at night, they can get away with it. If you read the methods of this study, they used dogs that lived as pets [1].
1. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00033...
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by llamaimperative on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @08:28AM
(#40717007)
And how do you think humans acquire a theory of mind other than learning behaviors and figuring out what works and what doesn’t?
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by mannykannot on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @08:48AM
(#40717207)
The question is one of what has been learned. It seems possible that an animal could learn, from experience, that outcomes can be different depending on whether it is light or dark, without developing any intuition as to why that might be so.
I'm all for the 'consciousness as a spectrum' view, but as TFA says, anyone looking for a eureka moment [in this matter] will be disappointed.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by stoperaticless on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @01:53AM
(#40714436)
But sadly they dont have theory of rope.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by bongodongobob on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @02:59AM
(#40714841)
Hilarious comment. Without fail, my neighbor's dog wraps himself around the tree within 30 minutes of being outside. It's been 2 years now, and he just can't get the hang of it.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by zeekaran on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @09:04AM
(#40717368)
Cats do the same thing if you take them outside on a leash. My cat is dumb enough to get tangled, but smart enough to know that I will guide her in reverse every time.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by Heronymus_Anon on Thursday June 20, 2024 @03:20AM
(#40735857)
> just can't get the hang
pun intended?
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by mikestew on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @11:02AM
(#40718616)
Oddly, I’ve found that pit bulls won’t wrap themselves around a tree. We’ve had several in our house that are/were walked daily, and we volunteer at a dog shelter where my wife and I walk other pit bulls on a regular basis. There are exceptions, but my experience is that the vast majority will not let anything (like a tree) between themselves and their handler if on leash. Just when I think “ah, ha! You’re going to do it…”, they will course correct and go around to avoid trouble. It’s the oddest thing. I have never come up with a plausible theory, but it sure is nice.
(And it is not our dog handling, as our control groups are happy to wrap circles around a tree.)
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by throwaway2037 on Wednesday June 19, 2024 @05:14AM
(#40726415)
I am not an pet owner. Are you saying that other breeds do this, but pit bulls are exceptional in this manner? If yes, do you have any thoughts why?
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by mikestew on Friday June 21, 2024 @12:17AM
(#40746094)
Yup, other breeds won’t pay attention, and get a signpost between themselves and their handler, and now the leash is stuck. And then they can’t figure out how to undo it. Pit bulls don’t do that. Why? I have no idea. I mean, I suppose you can breed for anything, but seems like a slightly odd feature to breed for.
Re:Are animals conscious? How new research is changing minds
by farhaven on Tuesday June 18, 2024 @04:18PM
(#40721810)
I mean, I'm pretty sure rats also have a theory of mind. My data point is exactly one of the little buggers who used to be my pet. Whenever he was running around my room, he'd peek around to see if I was looking at him before jumping on the couch. If he couldn't see me, he'd jump. If he could, he wouldn't.