News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by JimDabell on Saturday June 15, 2024 @02:27PM (#40691649)
Just to go a little bit more into detail on this, because the article and most of the conversation here is based on a big misunderstanding:

robots.txt governs crawlers. Fetching a single user-specified URL is not crawling. Crawling is when you automatically follow links to continue fetching subsequent pages.

Perplexity’s documentation that the article links to describes how their crawler works. That is not the piece of software that fetches individual web pages when a user asks for them. That’s just a regular user-agent, because it’s acting as an agent for the user.

The distinction between crawling and not crawling has been very firmly established for decades. You can see it in action with wget. If you fetch a specific URL with `wget https://www.example.com` then wget will just fetch that URL. It will not fetch robots.txt at all.

If you tell wget to act recursively with `wget --recursive https://www.example.com` to crawl that website, then wget will fetch `https://www.example.com`, look for links on the page, then if it finds any links to other pages, it will fetch `https://www.example.com/robots.txt` to check if it is permitted to fetch any subsequent links.

This is the difference between fetching a web page and crawling a website. Perplexity is following the very well established norms here.

Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by mattigames on Saturday June 15, 2024 @03:08PM (#40691963)
Its fairly logical to assume that robots.txt governs robots (empahsis in "bots") not just crawlers, if they are only intended to block crawlers why aren't they called crawlers.txt instead and remove all ambiguity?
Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by bluish29 on Saturday June 15, 2024 @03:17PM (#40692032)
That's a historical question. At this time, most if not all the bots were either search engines or archival. The name was even "RobotsNotWanted.txt" at the beginning but made "robots.txt" for simplicity. To give another example, Internet Archive stopped respecting it a couple of years ago, and they discuss this point (crawlers vs other bots) here [1].

[1] https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-sea...

Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by mattigames on Saturday June 15, 2024 @03:29PM (#40692116)
If it was uniquely an historical question then another text file to handle AI requests would exist by now, e.g. ai-bots.txt, but it hasn't and likely never will, they don't want to even have to pretend to comply with creator requests about forbidding (or not) the usage of their sites.
Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by pseudalopex on Saturday June 15, 2024 @10:11PM (#40694194)
You meant search bots and other bots? Internet Archive's bot is a crawler.

They showed no difference between search bots and archive bots. robots.txt was never for SEO alone. Sites exclude print versions so people see more ads and links to other pages. Sites exclude search pages to conserve resources. They said sites exclude large files for costs. And they can't think sites want sensitive areas like administrative pages archived.

Really Internet Archive stopped respecting robots.txt because they wanted to archive what sites didn't want them to archive. Many sites disallowed Internet Archive specifically. Many sites allowed specific bots. Many sites disallowed all bots and meant all bots. And hiding old snapshots when a new domain owner changed robots.txt was a self inflicted problem. robots.txt says what to crawl or not now. They knew all of this.

Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by alexey-salmin on Saturday June 15, 2024 @03:27PM (#40692095)
There's more than one way to define what a bot is.

You can make a request by typing the url in chrome, or by asking an AI tool to do so. Both start from user intent, both heavily rely on complicated software to work.

It's fairly logical to assume that bots don't have an intent and users do. It's not the only available interpretation though.

Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by JimDabell on Sunday June 16, 2024 @07:42AM (#40696332)
It’s not logical to assume anything about a standard merely from a 30-year-old filename when you can just read the documentation.

> WWW Robots (also called wanderers or spiders) are programs that traverse many pages in the World Wide Web by recursively retrieving linked pages.

— http://www.robotstxt.org/orig.html

Re:Perplexity AI is lying about their user agent by Dylan16807 on Sunday June 16, 2024 @11:16AM (#40697682)
> Its fairly logical to assume that robots.txt governs robots (empahsis in "bots") not just crawlers

It's plenty logical. That doesn't make it correct.

> if they are only intended to block crawlers why aren't they called crawlers.txt instead and remove all ambiguity?

Ha. Ask HTTP Referer.

A million standards have quirks in them that we're stuck with.