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Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by kleiba on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:22PM (#40601930)
> Gellhorn’s story ran in the August 5 issue with the headline “The Wounded Come Home.” No mention was made of the fact that she was the only female journalist on the ground at Omaha Beach.

As it shouldn't, as her sex is hardly relevant for the story she wrote.

Likewise, it doesn't matter for the story to mention that Gellhorn was arrested by military police for traveling to Normandy without permission after she returned to England. It's interesting for this article, but why should any information surrounding the author be mentioned in her “The Wounded Come Home” piece?

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by dang on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:52PM (#40602266)
I think you might be on the wrong side of this guideline here:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Unless I'm missing something, the author isn't saying it should have been mentioned; only that it wasn't.

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by kleiba on Thursday June 06, 2024 @05:49PM (#40602771)
Ok, thank you, dang.

I honestly think I wasn't breaking the guidelines but I think this case really is up to interpretation, and do I understand where you're coming from. My interpretation of the part I quoted was that the author of the article included that second sentence with the intention of it being interpreted as "...but it should have been mentioned". But you're right, that's my reading, nowhere does it say explicitly that that information should have been mentioned.

In any event, just to clarify, I wasn't trying to troll.

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by dang on Friday June 07, 2024 @12:40AM (#40605414)
That's a fine reply and settles the moderation point, so I don't mean to pile on—I hope that's clear! But I want to say some more about that guideline because this is a useful example.

You and I came up with different interpretations of this line: "No mention was made of the fact that she was the only female journalist on the ground at Omaha Beach":

Interpretation #1 (yours*): the author thinks the article should have mentioned that, and is perhaps implying something about sexism.

Interpretation #2 (mine): the author just finds it interesting that a striking fact was omitted.

Both our interpretations are plausible—I dare say equally plausible. But the guideline includes a "tie-breaker" for such cases: the word "strongest". This means that when there is more than one plausible interpretation, you should choose the one that makes for the strongest counter-argument to your criticism**.

In this case, #2 is clearly a stronger answer to the criticism "her sex is hardly relevant for the story she wrote" than #1 is, so the tie-breaker would favor #2.

This assumes that the commenter (you in this case) actually thinks of both #1 and #2 in the first place. Often this is not so. But at a meta level the guideline is also saying: "please think of as many interpretations you can and then choose the strongest one etc."

* I might not have phrased this fairly and in that case you can invoke the same guideline against me :)

** This is sometimes called "steelmanning" or "principle of charity".

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by d-z-m on Friday June 07, 2024 @09:58AM (#40608770)
In context, I believe interpretation number 1 stands on firmer ground than yours.

In the previous paragraph:

> Unlike his wife, Hemingway never went ashore at Normandy. On June 6, all he could do was watch from a landing craft as American soldiers fought their way onto Omaha Beach.

> Even though Gellhorn scooped Hemingway, his story ran first. “Voyage to Victory,” proclaimed the cover of Collier’s July 22, 1944, issue. The article identified Hemingway as “Collier’s famed war correspondent” and included a photo of the whiskered writer with Allied soldiers.

Only then does the section conclude with the line in question

> No mention was made of the fact that she was the only female journalist on the ground at Omaha Beach.

You can argue that the author just finds these and other facts interesting, and nothing more. I think that is ignoring the clear subtext present in the writing. The author is certainly making the case that she was not given the recognition she deserved; either because of her sex or her proximity to Hemingway. Because the author himself invoked her sex in the final line, I am inclined to think the former.

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by kleiba on Friday June 07, 2024 @11:04AM (#40609394)
Thanks for clarifying once again. This confirmed what I understood you meant.

I think your tie-breaker argument is totally fair which is why I didn't even try to contest it. But now that I'm thinking about it a little bit more, I do see a small issue with the guideline. Namely, for me as a commenter, it is ususally unclear whether my interpretation is indeed the strongest plausible one - for one, because what is "strongest" is, at least to a certain degree, subjective. But also, because it is unlikely that a commenter will ever be in a position to realize all possible interpretations of something they would like to comment on.

But like in this case, I don't have a problem in general with you (or someone else) barging in and flagging one of my comments, as long as it's fair, which in this case I think it was.

The upside of his guideline is that commenters should think twice before hitting the keyboard: is there perhaps an interpretation that I missed? I kinda doubt that that's going to become the new way to interact on the internet, but if it did, it would certainly be an improvement.

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by Aeolun on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:27PM (#40601985)
> Why should any information surrounding the author be mentioned in her “The Wounded Come Home” piece?

Publicity? They were happy enough to use her husbands name and image in a previous issue, so it’s not like they’re ethically opposed to doing so.

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by sed3 on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:29PM (#40602007)
Her sex is quite relevant for her writings. Any man was fair target for guns. She wrote from undisturbed safety of her privilege.

Even her treatment by military police after arrest was different.

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by dang on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:51PM (#40602250)
We've banned this account for trolling and ignoring our request to stop.

Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by nradov on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:49PM (#40602231)
What safety? Hundreds of US servicewomen were killed in WWII. Bombs and artillery don't discriminate by gender.

https://www.uso.org/stories/3005-over-200-years-of-service-t...

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by yieldcrv on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:45PM (#40602196)
"As a female war correspondent, Martha Gellhorn was not allowed to accompany the Allied invasion force .... and so, the night before the invasion, she finagled a spot on a hospital ship by telling military police she was there to interview nurses. Once aboard, Gellhorn found a bathroom, locked the door and hid until the ship was on its way to France on June 6, 1944."

"I had been sent to Europe to do my job, which was not to report the rear areas or the 'woman’s' angle.”

https://www.military.com/history/how-martha-gellhorn-became-...

Despite the so far unanimous invalidation you are experiencing in this thread, I would say that Martha Gellhorn would have agreed with you

Re:Martha Gellhorn – The Only Woman to Report on the D-Day L... by dang on Thursday June 06, 2024 @04:54PM (#40602284)
No doubt, but I dare say she'd have agreed with us about low-value internet comments too.