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Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by AndrewKemendo on Monday May 27, 2024 @11:37PM (#40497102)
I also have an extreme bias towards practitioners in terms of any practice being the exegesis of whatever the embedded epistemology is.

However, I believe you’re over indexing on this in that across pretty much every industry that I’ve ever dealt with, practitioners are notoriously terrible at implementing anything close to theoretical optimization

Why? simply because the organization does not incentivize that, so if we were then to use this as our standard, then we would be betraying what is effectively the idealized implementation of some epistemological process

instead you’re simply lowering the bar on what is a more correct way to do things

I think this is one of the few places where from a philosophical perspective The categorical imperative is actually very helpful - that is to say a medical professionals epistemology should be the highest standard and all other standards of rationality or let’s say decision-making should strive for

In short, much like practitioners need to keep the philosophers grounded , philosophers need to keep practitioners from lowering the bar on the epistemological robustness

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by snapcaster on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:41AM (#40500673)
I think the scoreboard indicates differently. I've never once come across a meaningful problem outside of philosophy addressed or solved by a philosopher
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by cd4plus on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:08AM (#40501434)
You haven't looked very hard then
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by TeMPOraL on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:20AM (#40501574)
Okay, name three examples then. Bonus points if they happen to be pure philosophers, not philosopher-practitioners.
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by cd4plus on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:42AM (#40501857)
Are you not a practitioner if you contribute to the field...? Seems impossible to meet your criteria.

What's a pure philosopher? Are Frege and Decartes not philosophers because they also did math? Does Alan Turing count? What about Popper and Kuhn? Are they philosophy enough for the philosopher club? Where, when, how and by whom do you think the concept of 'empirical science' was derived?

To be clear, everyone, including scientists, do philosophy every single day. You don't think Darwin did some philosophy in on the origin of species?

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by alan-hn on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:49PM (#40503420)
Sure you can argue about the specificity of the question but do you have any examples of pure philosophers?
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by cd4plus on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @04:13PM (#40505056)
Jerry Fodor? Noam Chomsky? Hilary Putnam? Patricia Churchland

What is a pure philosopher??!? I'm not arguing the specificity of the question, I'm saying that question is nonsensical.

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by alan-hn on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @12:15PM (#40513587)
Someone who does not test hypotheses
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by zaat on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @05:06PM (#40517025)
The characterization of the scientific method as proposing hypotheses and then putting them to test was given by a philosopher in the previous century. While the hypotheses that this is the character of the scientific method is still very common, it was refuted long ago, both by observations and by logic reasoning.
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by alan-hn on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @06:37PM (#40517898)
I didn't say anything about the scientific method though, I'm simply making a distinction about two groups of people who both seem to claim to generate understanding of our reality.

One group can and does test hypotheses, the other does not

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @10:23AM (#40512329)
-Feynmann -Von Neumann -Say -Frege -Pasteur -Darwin

Like I could literally go forever because most breakthrough practitioners started as philosophers- note the PhDs

“Doctor of Philosophy”

I mean JFC people this is basic science history

But you know I’m sure that won’t satisfy somebody who doesn’t even understand the epistemological distinction between what a philosopher is or does and what somebody who’s actually doing experimental testing that turns into something great is because the distinction is basically zero

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by alan-hn on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @11:09AM (#40512754)
The distinction is that one of them actually tests hypotheses
Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:23AM (#40501627)
I’m not aware of this scoreboard

Please provide a link or otherwise reference to this scoreboard

Unless you were writing metaphorically in which case you’ll need to write a lot more to describe it

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by snapcaster on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @12:23PM (#40502437)
Sorry thought it was clear but maybe a little poorly phrased. My point is: the number of meaningful solutions to problems by practitioners is infinity. The number of meaningful solutions to problems by non-practicing philosophers is zero as far as I know. Open to it being non-zero, but don't think the score is remotely close

edit: I think often theoreticians are unable to appreciate the constraints or nuance of actually "doing it" so frequently their "solutions" don't survive impact with reality

Re:Why We're Turning Psychiatric Labels into Identities by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:55PM (#40504175)
Can you differentiate between implementation quality of a tool?

The “platonic wheel” is not a concern for someone trying to make money selling tires - but nor do those tires by being a function of successful commerce describe a “platonic wheel”

Perhaps the platonic wheel is in some intersectional saddle point between theory and practice but to say that only that which is commonly adopted has measure ignores the philosophical genesis that precedes and impregnates the production process.